are carver yachts seaworthy

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Full Chapter One

by David Pascoe

When we first decided to do boat reviews, we pretty much decided that there were certain boat builders that we wouldn't consider. These would mainly be the entry-level class builders, or builders whose products had established such a well known reputation for poor quality and defective products that we needn't state the obvious.

There are always those folks who can't resist a bargain, or whose philosophy is to always shop and buy based on the lowest price. Sure, we harp on quality a lot, mainly because boats are so very expensive, and to spend $100,000 on the lowest priced boat of its class is just plain nuts. But we've come to realize that there are some people -- many of them, in fact -- who will never realize the error in this.  So there's no point in our attempting to dissuade them.

We also pointed out in our Introduction to Boat Reviews , which many of our readers don't read, and therefore miss the whole point of these reviews being here, that the quality amongst any builder's product line can be highly variable, not only from model to model, but from year to year, or even month to month. We cautioned against simply reading a review of one boat, and then applying the information in that review more or less globally. We cautioned that boats are not cranked out of a machine, but are hand made products.  By human hands, that is. So you may want to reflect on the old Russian adage that you never want to buy a refrigerator that is made on a Monday or a Friday. Or anything else, for that matter.

Carver is one of those builders whom we didn't see much point in mentioning, for the caliber of their products are well known, and a buyer would have to have been asleep for the past twenty years, or simply too lazy to do any research at all, not to know what kind of boats they build. Surveyors have long considered them to be little more than floating campers, and are often heard to make jokes such as "they forgot to put the wheels on this one."

Then, very early in the decade, we started hearing talk that Carver was trying to reinvent itself by entering the mid-sized boat market, and was turning out a higher quality product. Well, "better quality" is a phrase that always gets our attention, so we started paying more attention to Carver. Sure, we've surveyed plenty of their small boats, but didn't see much point in commenting on them. If you do your shopping at a discount store, you know what kind of quality you're getting. By the mid 1990's we were hearing a lot of talk about Carver, mainly by the broker/dealer types, favorably comparing this new line of boats to some of the higher end boats like Hatteras or Viking. Surveyors, of course, don't get to survey new boats very often. Typically, we don't survey a boat until its 3 years or older. What we were seeing in the boat shows and at the dealer's docks certainly looked good. But, then, all new boats look good. It takes a while for the shine to wear off and the boat has some miles under its bilge before we begin to see whether they're really made of the right stuff.

Now, when a builder enters the larger boat market, particularly with boats priced well over 1/4 million, that attracts our interest. Not because we're interested in the higher rollers, but to see what a builder can get away with in this price range. (Sort of like wondering if you could sell a Rolls Royce with plastic bumpers.) And also when the literature is peppered with words like quality and craftsmanship.

Our first good look came in 1995 with Hurricane Opal in the Florida panhandle when we got to see a couple of damaged 43's.  There's nothing like examining a boat that's been broken apart (or not broken apart) by a storm to really get a good look at how they're made. For this is where all the cost and corner cutting begins to stick out like a sore thumb. And what we were seeing wasn't looking too good. Our first example was a one year old 43 footer that broke its moorings and was driven up onto a sandy shore in the courtyard of a condominium. This boat really caught a lot of attention because it had part of a helm chair imbedded in the side of the hull. Yep, the base of a helm chair was sticking right out

On close examination, it was pretty easy to see how that had happened. The hull sides were balsa cored and the exterior fiberglass skin was somewhere around 1/8" to maybe 3/16" thick. The glass was so thin that you could swing a small hammer at it with only moderate force and it would go right through.  We know because we tried that. The other boat had small holes punctured in the sides all around the hull, but what really caught our attention was the fact that it also had creases in the hull sides where it had scraped against the gunwales of other boats. That's creases like you'd get in your car door if you brushed up against the bumper of another car.   This one also had only 1/8" glass on the sides. Fiberglass is strong stuff, but not that strong.

Dent's and creases in a fiberglass hull? Now that's something we've never seen before. But the glass on this boat was also so thin that creasing it was made possible. Then we starting thinking and comparing these two Carvers with the 46 Bertram just down the road that broke loose, wiped out half a marina, took out part of a restaurant built on 12' telephone pole pilings and ended up in a heap against a concrete retaining wall with a pile of other boats. It didn't have a single hole in the side, even though the hull side of that boat was only around 3/8" thick. You can see pictures of it in the 46 Bertram review.

Hole cut here is for a test coupon in way of area where outer laminate started peeling off. The hull is about 1/4" thick in this area and is delaminated. Bottom flexing was so bad here that even the paint flaked off. The delamination can be seen inside the hole.

Our next exposure came with a 46 Carver wherein the owner had decided to add a cockpit extension to the hull. After going into the yard, the after interior was stripped out, then they removed the exhaust pipes from the transom.  Problem was, water started pouring out of the balsa cored transom and hull sides.  Seems Carver thought it was a good idea to core the hull right down to the chine, well below the water line. But worse, for all the through hull openings and exhaust pipes, they just cut holes right through the core and bedded the fittings and pipes in place. Now builders have know ever since the 1960's that you can't do this, but apparently Carver didn't. So when the fittings inevitably leaked, the core filled up with water.

But there was another problem. Once again, both the  outer and inner laminates were so thin that the yard discovered, much to their surprise, that there wasn't enough material to bond an extension to. The hull was simply too weak to add onto it. At least for the amount they had quoted in the customer's contract. On the inside, over the balsa core, was only ONE layer of mat and roving for a laminate thickness of about 1/16".

It is our policy that we do not publish instances of hull failures or defects of any kind unless we can establish a pattern of defects. All boat builders make mistakes, and its not our purpose to go around pointing them out. The defect has to be endemic to their way of doing things. Moreover, we are extremely careful to make sure that the boat wasn't abused or damaged by some other means. We do not wish to sully anyone's reputation, so unless we find multiple instances of defects or poor design, we keep quiet about it. The boat that put Carver over the threshold for us is this 1994 model 370 that experienced massive bottom laminate failure.

This is a story we're telling with pictures because they speak for themselves. What you see here is a hull that has so little fiberglass in it, that is so thin that it is simply falling apart. At best, the bottom laminate around the unsupported panels (between frames) is one quarter inch thick. It looks a little thicker where you see the test hole cut because the bottom is delaminated and spread apart. Worse yet, of that 1/4" you can see that there are multiple layers of chopped strand mat, a material that is only used (or should be used) to prevent telegraphing of the weave pattern of the structural fabrics through to the gelcoat. In this case the mat, which is a very weak material, comprises a major part of the bottom laminate thickness, at least 25%.

What you see here is a catestrophic hull failure in progess. It was caught in time, before the boat sank, after the boat was hauled out and discovered that parts of the bottom laminate were peeling off.  What you see here is the inevitable result of what happens when the bean counters get involved in the design of a boat in order to produce it as cheaply as possible. What you see here is the result of a conscious decision to use as little clostly materials as possible, not just in one or two boats, but throughout a product line. Its what happens when you design a hull to the edge of failure limits: some of them are going to fail. What you see here is a boat that cannot be repaired and, unless the builder is willing to refund the sales price, is likely to be tied up in litigation for years.

This is a very rare shot of bottom panel flexing so bad that it completely outlines the inner hull frames. Note the rectangular pattern. The horizontal cracks outline the stringers, while the vertical cracks outline the bulkheads or frames.

These circular pattern stress cracks are the more typical pattern that indicates bottom flexing. Note that at extreme left, these cracks have been painted over several times, indicating that they are not newly formed. Highly irregular patterns at far right are areas of delamination that are about to fail. At bottom, the strake is badly cracked and is in danger of splitting open.

Consider that the advertised weight of this boat is 17,500 lbs. and that a comparably sized Hatteras of same vintage comes in around 32,000 lbs. If you price a boat by the pound, which we often do for purposes of comparison, you are looking at a difference of almost DOULBE the weight. If you subtract the difference in average per pound cost in materials between the two, the conclusion you must draw is inescapable. And in case you've never made the connection, there is a direct correlation between weight, longevity and quality of ALL products; well made things simply weigh more, whether its a Rolex watch or a Rolls Royce. Even a good toaster is going to weigh more than a cheap toaster. To be well made, it not only must have more material, but better material.

There's no excuse for this sort of thing, or course. This is not high technology stuff here; mankind has been successfully building good boats for thousands of years, and fiberglass boats for over 40 years, boats that are reasonably priced, and boats that don't fall apart. And while its easy to blame the builder, increasingly we are turning our attention to the boating public that buys products like this without discernment. The fact is that you can't ever have your cake and eat it too. Unless you have two cakes. People who shop price alone don't have two cakes; they can only afford one.

Stress cracks outline the hull stringers extending nearly all the way aft.

Its the competitive nature of of capitalism that some manufacturers will attempt to capture market share by reducing the price below all competitors. Of course they cannot stay in business if they don't also reduce the cost of manufacturing by an equal amount. Companies must make a profit to survive. This unfortunate nature of capitalism means that inevitably  the cost/quality relationship of manufactured products is going to spiral downward to the least common denominator, ending up with what you see in these photos. We end up with boats little better than so-called mobile homes.   And when the big wind comes along, everyone looks to the taxpayers to pay the cost of their stupidity. You don't have that luxury with a boat.

Boat builders are not going to stop producing products like this, no matter how much pressure is put on them to do otherwise. The problem is market driven, and must be solved by the market. That means that unless and until the boating public becomes more discerning about the products they buy, they are going to continue to get burned. We shouldn't forget that capitalism is democracy in action. We cast a vote every time we buy something. That vote tells manufacturers what you want in terms of quality and price. They don't know whether you are knowledgeable or stupid; if you know what you bought, or of you just bought it blind. They only know that this is what sells. If you are willing to make a $250,000 purchase indiscriminately based on price alone, the manufacturer will be willing to take the same risk and design the quality right down to the bare bones, and below, in order to give it to you. Even if it takes both of you right down the drain. Once the downward spiral starts, the builders really haven't much choice. They either meet the market or perish. Its you, the boat buyer, who holds all the cards.

Consider that Hatteras has pretty much abandoned the mid-sized boat market. And so has Viking. Consider that Bertram and Blackfin are out of business. Consider that a lot of other quality builders have met the same fate. See what's happening here? Low quality is driving out good quality, because that's what the market wants.

That's why we find it hard to blame the builder for this sort of thing.

David Pascoe - Biography

David Pascoe is a second generation marine surveyor in his family who began his surveying career at age 16 as an apprentice in 1965 as the era of wooden boats was drawing to a close.

Certified by the National Association of Marine Surveyors in 1972, he has conducted over 5,000 pre purchase surveys in addition to having conducted hundreds of boating accident investigations, including fires, sinkings, hull failures and machinery failure analysis.

Over forty years of knowledge and experience are brought to bear in following books. David Pascoe is the author of:

• " Mid Size Power Boats " (2003)
• " Buyers’ Guide to Outboard Boats " (2002)
• " Surveying Fiberglass Power Boats " (2001, 2nd Edition - 2005)
• " Marine Investigations " (2004).

In addition to readers in the United States, boaters and boat industry professionals worldwide from nearly 80 countries have purchased David Pascoe's books, since introduction of his first book in 2001.

In 2012, David Pascoe has retired from marine surveying business at age 65.

On November 23rd, 2018, David Pascoe has passed away at age 71.

Biography - Long version

Boat Reviews Articles At-A-Glance

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Published by: D. H. Pascoe & Co., Inc. Articles, Images: Copyright © 1997 - 2018 David H. Pascoe All rights reserved. Articles, Images: Copyright © 2019-2022 Junko A. Pascoe All rights reserved. Web site design & developement: Copyright © 1997 - 2023 Junko A. Pascoe All rights reserved. Web site: Maintained by Junko A. Pascoe

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Coupe  de  Carver

• By Michael Verdon
• Updated: February 23, 2017

Based on the C52 Command Bridge launched in early 2016, Carver’s new C52 Coupe was one of the must-see models this past fall. The Wisconsin builder’s dockside booth at the Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show was overflowing with yachtsmen who wanted to step aboard the black-hulled C52 Coupe — which is a beauty inside and out. “We knew this would be our flagship for a long time, so we decided to go above and beyond,” says Josh Delforge, vice president of product development and engineering at Carver. “We wanted to show exactly what we could do with this new generation of Carvers.”

HISTORY OF CHANGE

Founded in 1954 by Charles Carter and George Verhagen, Carver started by building wooden runabouts. Genmar acquired the company in 1979, and Carver transitioned toward aft-cabin cruisers, including its then-largest 4207 Motor Yacht in 1985. The most recent generation of Carvers, launched during the past three years, has replaced every model built before 2012. The six new Carvers range from the C34 Command Bridge to the C52 Coupe flagship.

ENTERING A NEW ERA

The Carver C52 Coupe represents a fairly radical design evolution for the 63-year-old builder, which is on track to become serious competition for Italian and British yards. Working with Donald L. Blount and Associates, designers of renowned offshore yachts, Carver retooled its build processes and incorporated innovative design elements to create a serious bluewater cruiser. The plumb bow and low-riding superstructure give this next-gen Carver a contemporary look, and the interior also impresses, with such features as a private stairway to the master suite, a salon with 10-foot headroom and a sunroof.

CARVING A NEW PATH

“This isn’t your father’s ­Oldsmobile,” says Carver President and CEO Rob Parmentier, who has led the brand’s renaissance. “Carver ­always built a good-running boat, but they didn’t always put a lot of money into their components. We’ve invested a lot into raising the standards to what owners ­expect of a quality yacht.” The attention to detail shows on the C52 Coupe in “dozens of little things,” ­Parmentier says, from the weave of the carpet to the grade of stainless steel in the cleats. “We did a lot of listening to what owners want on a dream boat,” he says.

MATERIAL GIRL

The C52 Coupe represents a big stretch for Carver in terms of design and materials. The sunroof is the largest Carver has ever built. The builder also added skylights with a chromatic material that changes from clear to opaque. “The entire structure surrounding them is built of carbon fiber,” Delforge says. “We’ve never used that much carbon fiber in a Carver before. It may seem extreme, but we wanted to have the best quality and lightest weight possible for the coupe’s superstructure.”

REACHING THE OUTER LIMITS

The C52 Coupe’s exterior blends smart features of European and American design. The hull, with its vertical bow and swept-back superstructure, looks like some of the latest superyacht designs from the Netherlands and Italy. The high freeboard, however, gives the Carver the protected feel of a small ship with social spaces. Space and access to the great outdoors define the on-deck areas fore and aft. The full-beam swim platform is 6 feet 4 inches deep, allowing a group to congregate for watersports. The adjoining 160-square-foot cockpit is perfect for alfresco dining with friends. “We looked at one of Carver’s competitors, but it didn’t have enough space in the cockpit,” says Steve Grebow, who bought the first C52 Coupe. “That’s where we spend time, so it was an easy choice.” Carver designed a tender garage with easy access from the swim platform for equipment and toy stowage. The pop-up entrance also opens to the crew cabin aft, with a bunk, optional head and 6 feet 10 inches of headroom. The Grebows run Hull No. 1 themselves and use this space to transport four bicycles and water toys. When Carver decided to move from a flybridge to a coupe, the design implications involved more than just losing the upper deck. “Initially, there was nothing really special about the design of the superstructure,” Delforge says. “We decided that we could really distinguish it by making the sunroof as large as possible and then adding skylights behind.”

MAKING IT THEIR OWN

Steve and Janet Grebow searched high and low for a boat to replace their 40-foot Doral. “Our list of must-haves included a full-beam master suite along with two other staterooms, a rear galley on the main deck and a very large cockpit,” Steve says. “We looked at every boat between 48 and 52, but we didn’t like this or that. The Carver was the only one that checked all the boxes.” After taking delivery of Hull No. 1 in November, they did a two-week cruise through the Florida Keys. “So far, we love it,” Steve says. “We’re very happy with the quality of the build and the boat’s seaworthiness. We hit some 5-foot seas coming out of Miami, and the ride was solid.”

THE MARQUIS FACTOR

The carpenters and craftsmen at Carver Yachts’ Wisconsin factory are the same workers who build the more luxurious Marquis line. The skill sets and materials required for the quality detailing in the Marquis line have been transferred to new Carver models, Delforge says: “We took some of the design cues and materials developed for Marquis and use them on the new Carvers. Having Marquis has helped us build Carvers smarter with a higher level of luxury.”

Carver has always built seaworthy hulls for its cruisers and motoryachts. The C52 Coupe is no exception. Its modified V-hull with plumb bow is designed for big seas, while the full chine and rail on the running surface provide a dry ride. The company builds its hulls, moving from open molding to vacuum infusion with cored materials. Carver also uses an independent stringer system glued into the hull to minimize vibration and hull flex. “We made significant efforts to improve the ride quality,” Delforge says. “You really notice it while underway.” With the twin 600 hp Cummins, the C52 Coupe has a spirited top-end speed of 31 knots. A 27-knot cruise gives you a 268-nautical-mile range.

CONVERSATION STARTER

The salon is the centerpiece of this yacht, a gathering point that provides a clear line of sight from the galley aft to the double-seat helm station forward. The sunroof creates an open feel in the forward section of the salon, while the skylights aft, with 10 feet of headroom, make the interior feel like an atrium. With maple floors, black-cherry cabinets and ­windows all around, the C52 Coupe begins to feel more like a waterfront apartment than a yacht. Abaft the sunroof, the fixed aft skylights are one of the salon’s most impressive features. The glass panels incorporate Switch Shield technology that turns them from clear to opaque at the touch of a button. “We wanted to maximize the feeling of being outside,” Delforge says. “Due to the 10-foot ceiling height, curtains were not an option. So we went with switchable glass.” Good choice, as it really lights up the salon.

PRIVATE AFFAIRS

To maximize the space of the heads in the two staterooms forward and the master suite aft, ­Carver designed a separate ­staircase to the master. The ­solution not only gave the owners privacy, but also added 3 feet to the width of each head. The master suite feels big for a 52-foot yacht too, with a ­windowside lounge, cabinets and an en suite. A sculpted headboard on the bed, side windows and a glass-enclosed shower with rainforest shower head and ­vanity make this space a sanctuary.

VIP AFFAIRS

Carver included lounges, an en suite (with a skylight over the all-glass shower stall) and cherry- wood dressers along both sides of the VIP stateroom. It isn’t as spacious as the master, but it makes a wonderful weekend apartment.

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Carver or Bayliner

• Thread starter itsalwayssummer
• Start date Aug 25, 2021

itsalwayssummer

• Aug 25, 2021

Hi all, I’m considering buying a 1997-2002 Bayliner 3788 or a Carver 38 Santego with twin diesels for motoring in the Puget Sound (Seattle, Tacoma, San Juan Islands, Victoria and Vancouver, B.C). Is one boat better than the other, what are their weaknesses, which one is more seaworthy, etc.. I would greatly appreciate any information. thank you  

Scott Danforth

Grumpy vintage moderator still playing with boats.

When they were both brand new, the Carver was a better boat 100000 times that of the Bayliner However you are looking at 18 to 20 year old boats with a 20 year design life. Now its all about condition, condition, condition Which boat has an impeccable service and maintenance reccord? Diesels should last nearly forever. Best if they are Cummins vs the Volvos  

Scott Danforth said: When they were both brand new, the Carver was a better boat 100000 times that of the Bayliner However you are looking at 18 to 20 year old boats with a 20 year design life. Now its all about condition, condition, condition Which boat has an impeccable service and maintenance reccord? Diesels should last nearly forever. Best if they are Cummins vs the Volvos Click to expand...

• Aug 26, 2021

itsalwayssummer said: Thank you. I know Cummins are great engines, you also recommend Volvo? Click to expand...

Don't think.the Carver when new was 1,000 times better than the Bayliner. I believe there motor yachts are built in a different plant than the junk that created there reputation. Quality control and gear they put on it are day and night different than the under 30' boats they produce.  

Chief Petty Officer

A boat that old, that size and however much $$$$ you are spending , you need to spend a little more and have a marine survey. When you decide the most appropriate boat for you get it surveyed. If the seller hesitates at you getting it surveyed, walk away.  

Carver boats - a big mistake?

Richard C. Belanger

"Richard C. Belanger" < [email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Harry Krause

[email protected]

>Hi: > >I have been looking at a new Carver 396. Looks like a nice boat, good >for the family, though not a hard-core offshore design. Everything has >been looking good until I went to http://www.yachtsurvey.com > >David Pascoe has a post on Carver's that makes me feel I would be better >off lashing together some logs than getting a Carver. Needless to say I >am more than a little concerned. >

garyjwilliams

Fred Konchan

Karl Denninger

>> Don't forget, Pascoe's articles, although well written, are the kind of

>> reviews where $150K is considered cheap. > > Not true.

While there is some good information on his site, many of his > conclusions are indefensible in an open forum, IMO.

> Carver's are fine recreational boats with many proud and repeat owners.

> Pascoe is a winey cowardly ambusher thus far unable to belly up to the > bar. Hopefully, some day he will find the courage of his convictions and > test his rather myopic views in free and open discussion.

>> I can remember when Pascoe passed off pictures of hurricane damaged >> boats implying they were *typical* of the builder's products until he >> was called on it. He meekly pulled those pictures and stories from his

>> website. While there is some good information on his site, many of his

>> conclusions are indefensible in an open forum, IMO.

>> Carver's are fine recreational boats with many proud and repeat owners.

>> Pascoe is a winey cowardly ambusher thus far unable to belly up to the >> bar. Hopefully, some day he will find the courage of his convictions >> and test his rather myopic views in free and open discussion.

> Another in the series of bullshippy, bold-faced lies from Skipper...

> Pascoe pulled those Bayliner photos because he was tired of seeing his

"Richard C. Belanger" wrote: > > Hi: > > I have been looking at a new Carver 396. Looks like a nice boat, good > for the family, though not a hard-core offshore design. Everything has > been looking good until I went to http://www.yachtsurvey.com > > David Pascoe has a post on Carver's that makes me feel I would be better > off lashing together some logs than getting a Carver. Needless to say I > am more than a little concerned. >

> [email protected] wrote: >> >> On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:26:06 GMT, "Richard C. Belanger"

>> < [email protected] > wrote: >> >> >Hi: >> > >> >I have been looking at a new Carver 396. Looks like a nice boat, good >> >for the family, though not a hard-core offshore design. Everything has >> >been looking good until I went to http://www.yachtsurvey.com >> > >> >David Pascoe has a post on Carver's that makes me feel I would be better >> >off lashing together some logs than getting a Carver. Needless to say I >> >am more than a little concerned. >> > >>

>> dont forget, pascoe's articles, although wel written, are the kind of

>> reviews where $150K is considered cheap. > >Not true. >

Further, if you DO have a cored hull (even above the waterline only; I'd dismiss as insane any hull cored below the waterline) there had better be layers of roving on the OUTSIDE of the core material. If there isn't (eg: chopper gun or nothing) on the outside you have pretty close to ZERO impact resistance.

>> I have been looking at a new Carver 396. Looks like a nice boat, good >> for the family, though not a hard-core offshore design. Everything has >> been looking good until I went to http://www.yachtsurvey.com

>> David Pascoe has a post on Carver's that makes me feel I would be better >> off lashing together some logs than getting a Carver. Needless to say I >> am more than a little concerned.

> Well, Pascoe pretty-well documented his findings on the Carver... A > boat...with a hull thin enough to puncture due to a light impact

> (realize that a "light" impact in boat terms is a rock or other hard > object on the bottom that you hit with the hull while moving at 20 knots!)

> The prospect of being holed and sinking as a consequence of such an impact > ought to dissuade anyone from buying a boat such as this.

> "Light" impacts (due to deadheads, other junk in the water, etc) happen ALL > THE TIME and are basically unavoidable risks in the boating world. If you > boat in a region where you're more than a comfortable swim away from shore > (or where the water is cold enough to kill you even if you'd otherwise > survive) then I would consider such a boat to be an INSANE purchase > decision.

RICHARD POELSTRA

>Try walking the dock telling the proud owner of a Carver that his boat >is a POS and unsafe. Yes, you and Pascoe have a lot in common ...both >Assholes. > >-- >Skipper

But heh, its your money Skip.

Larry W4CSC

> >Further, if you DO have a cored hull (even above the waterline only; I'd >dismiss as insane any hull cored below the waterline) there had better be >layers of roving on the OUTSIDE of the core material. If there isn't (eg: >chopper gun or nothing) on the outside you have pretty close to ZERO impact >resistance. >

You look at the shit some Hats and Bertrams get put through during storms (including being blown into pilings, other structures and boats) and you'll find exactly that kind of ruggedness.

Jim Donohue

Richard C. Belanger < [email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> Hi: > > Thanks so much for the feedback, pro and con. I have been in touch with > dealer and Carver. We are going to do a preliminary sea trial on the > same model boat in the next few weeks - and a complete walk through. I > will report back on the results, if anyone seems to be interested. > > I am also widening my search to encompass other boats, with an emphasis > on learning more about what makes a good design. > > Does anyone have good sources on what to look for in a well designed > boat today (other than Pascoe. I have already printed out his stuff). > > Thanks, > > Rich >

> "Richard C. Belanger" wrote: > > > > Hi: > > > > I have been looking at a new Carver 396. Looks like a nice boat, good > > for the family, though not a hard-core offshore design. Everything has > > been looking good until I went to http://www.yachtsurvey.com > > > > David Pascoe has a post on Carver's that makes me feel I would be better > > off lashing together some logs than getting a Carver. Needless to say I > > am more than a little concerned. > >

> >You look at the shit some Hats and Bertrams get put through during storms >(including being blown into pilings, other structures and boats) and you'll >find exactly that kind of ruggedness. >

A friend of mine has a Hunter 34 sloop. The race committee insists everyone have a hand-operated bilge pump permanently installed. So, I installed Joe a Whale into his cockpit's starboard side where someone could sit and pump for hours on its handle. I stood on the dock with my cordless drill and hole saw to put the 1 1/4" thru-hull fitting into the starboard side of the hull about 2' above the water line. Some, on the dock, were skeptical that my little B&D could drill the hole. They watched in horror as I easily drilled the pilot hole and let the saw kiss the gelcoat, grinding its hole in the side of the boat. Took only about 20 seconds and the deed was done. I handed Joe the plug from the inside of the hole saw. "That's all there is to the hull?!!", he exclaimed. "Yep, about 1/2" thick, only 2' off the waterline. We looked close and it looks like there's only one layer of cloth, or at the most 2, in the epoxy, left really rough on the inside. I guess this will be thick enough until he slams into the dock from the tide, someday. Can't we afford more for a hundred grand??

>A friend of mine has a Hunter 34 sloop. The race committee insists >everyone have a hand-operated bilge pump permanently installed. So, I >installed Joe a Whale into his cockpit's starboard side where someone >could sit and pump for hours on its handle. I stood on the dock with >my cordless drill and hole saw to put the 1 1/4" thru-hull fitting >into the starboard side of the hull about 2' above the water line. >Some, on the dock, were skeptical that my little B&D could drill the >hole. They watched in horror as I easily drilled the pilot hole and >let the saw kiss the gelcoat, grinding its hole in the side of the >boat. Took only about 20 seconds and the deed was done. I handed Joe >the plug from the inside of the hole saw. "That's all there is to the >hull?!!", he exclaimed. "Yep, about 1/2" thick, only 2' off the >waterline. We looked close and it looks like there's only one layer >of cloth, or at the most 2, in the epoxy, left really rough on the >inside. I guess this will be thick enough until he slams into the >dock from the tide, someday. Can't we afford more for a hundred >grand?? > >Larry

Those boats not only inherently have a shitload of mass but they spend their entire life in the water. Below-waterline cores in those hulls WILL get wet and once they do trouble is inevitable.

On 20 Mar 2000 01:45:14 GMT, [email protected] (Karl

On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:56:42 -0500, "L8apex" < [email protected] >

Rod McInnis

"Richard C. Belanger" wrote: > > Hi: > > I have been looking at a new Carver 396. Looks like a nice boat, good > for the family, though not a hard-core offshore design. Everything has > been looking good until I went to http://www.yachtsurvey.com >

> I hadn't considered the more hard-core boats like Bertram and Hatteras > since I believed they were completely out of my price range. > > Any opinions out there?

>Would I be making a huge mistake with a Carver?

Larry Weiss

Larry Weiss "...Ever After!"

With that out of the way, let me say that Carver quality has been on the rise for a number of years. My understanding is the boat in David Pascoe's review was actually bought back by Carver, having been one of a handful of boats produced that year that were incorrectly built and *replaced*. I like Mr.

Pascoe's information, but he cannot be expected to provide the complete story behind every boat brand, so I can't blame him for missing the whole picture in that situation. He saw what he saw and reported it accordingly.

Dale Peterson

"Skipper" < [email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> RBStern wrote: > > > I like Mr. Pascoe's information, but he cannot be expected to provide the > > complete story behind every boat brand, so I can't blame him for missing the > > whole picture in that situation. He saw what he saw and reported it > > accordingly. >

> > Carver has since invested a lot of money on quality control processes and > quality control people. And it flat out shows.

> Comparing it to a Hatteras is silly. Put a 2 inch thick hull on a Carver for > close-to-shore or lake or river duty? Yeah, that would make sense. Then it > needs big diesels. Might as well make it a deep-vee while we are at it. There > goes the space, the price, fuel economy, maintenance costs, etc. Who would > buy one? The same people who buy Hatteras. Not what Carver is after, I'm > afraid. And not what a lot of us Carver owners want.

> > To the original poster: You will not find a better 40' aft cabin boat with so > many amenities, high comfort level, quality, and resale value than the Carver > 396, in that general price range. You can find better boats built for a > different audience, at different price points, usually higher, or you can buy > an older, higher end boat, but again, it won't touch the functionality of the > 396. Just don't buy the 396 (or any aft cabin!) if rough conditions are part > of the boating you plan to do on a regular basis. >

I have no qualm with someone who wants a floating party barge. There's a market for everything, and if that's what you want that's fine. But trying to claim that these boats are suitable for cruising out in big water (and the Great Lakes certainly qualify as big water) is dangerous to the health of those who do so.

RBStern wrote: > > Hey, one more Carver opinion, while we are at it? > > First, let me (re)state that I am a Carver owner and therefore, biased. > > Second, don't take my word for it. Here's a link to another forum, > specifically, the opinion of a marine surveyor who sees a lot of Carvers on the > Great Lakes: > > http://www.yachtingnet.com/community/forums/power/1051/0.html >

> With that out of the way, let me say that Carver quality has been on the rise > for a number of years. My understanding is the boat in David Pascoe's review > was actually bought back by Carver, having been one of a handful of boats

> produced that year that were incorrectly built and *replaced*. I like Mr.

> Pascoe's information, but he cannot be expected to provide the complete story > behind every boat brand, so I can't blame him for missing the whole picture in > that situation. He saw what he saw and reported it accordingly. >

> Carver has since invested a lot of money on quality control processes and > quality control people. And it flat out shows. >

> Carver has a solid reputation for good fit and finish, similar to Regal, > Chapparral, and othe mid-priced brands. I believe their use of interior space > is ahead of anybody making products in the same category. They've also had > some great innovations lately, such as frameless (no leak!) windows, very wide > sidedecks, and have recently eliminated all wood below the waterline on their > boats (they haven't made cored hulls since 1981). >

> Comparing it to a Hatteras is silly. Put a 2 inch thick hull on a Carver for > close-to-shore or lake or river duty? Yeah, that would make sense. Then it > needs big diesels. Might as well make it a deep-vee while we are at it. There > goes the space, the price, fuel economy, maintenance costs, etc. Who would > buy one? The same people who buy Hatteras. Not what Carver is after, I'm > afraid. And not what a lot of us Carver owners want. >

> I wouldn't hesitate to have anyone here who doubts the quality to take a close > look. They know how to build a decent boat. And the company is very good > about standing by the product. They are customer service oriented. > > My wife laments about having to drive the family minivan every day because she > says she "doesn't look cool." In response, I usually say, "Well, do you want > to trade it in on a sportier car?" Her response is always the same: "No, I > need the functionality of the minivan." The point being that the product we > might idealize (a tough, diesel powered, wave slicing, ocean going battlewagon > like a Hatteras sportfish), is not often the product we can either afford or > live with. >

> To the original poster: You will not find a better 40' aft cabin boat with so > many amenities, high comfort level, quality, and resale value than the Carver > 396, in that general price range. You can find better boats built for a > different audience, at different price points, usually higher, or you can buy > an older, higher end boat, but again, it won't touch the functionality of the > 396. Just don't buy the 396 (or any aft cabin!) if rough conditions are part

Your point is what, exactly?

Of course, what most people call 3-6 footers are really about 2'.

>Perhaps boats of this type need a warning label on them. "Warning: even >though this boat is 40 feet long, it is designed and built only for >close to shore, lake or river duty, and we don't mean Lake Superior in a >squall."

>No offense, Rich, but that 40' Carver, at least the one depicted on the >Carver website (396 motor yacht), is among the ugliest boats I have ever >seen. It looks like a doublewide manufactured home with a huge lifting >handle, with some canard of a back porch-diving board right behind that >radar arch. With all that windage, it must be a terror to dock. And the >standard engines on that 28,000-pound monster are a pair of big block >V-8 gasoline slurpers? Holy Batman, who makes the boat, OPEC?

>Seriously, if you want a boat like that, why not buy a houseboat and be >done with it? At least a houseboat is honest in what it is. > >-- >Harry Krause

> I guess your boat needs a warning label that says: "Warning: You cannot sleep > comfortably, cook a meal, watch TV, get out of the weather, rest out of the > sun, have air conditioning, store food indefinitely in a refrigerator, carry 15 > people comfortably, or any of a few dozen other things on this boat."

Interestingly, the psychotherapist in the family is pushing me towards buying a new boat on which you can sleep comfortably, cook a meal, watch

TV, get out of the weather, rest out of the sun, have air conditioning,

store food and carry a lot of people. It's smaller than that Carver under discussion, but it will safely handle offshore conditions.

> > >No offense, Rich, but that 40' Carver, at least the one depicted on the > >Carver website (396 motor yacht), is among the ugliest boats I have ever > >seen. It looks like a doublewide manufactured home with a huge lifting > >handle, with some canard of a back porch-diving board right behind that > >radar arch. With all that windage, it must be a terror to dock. And the > >standard engines on that 28,000-pound monster are a pair of big block > >V-8 gasoline slurpers? Holy Batman, who makes the boat, OPEC? > > No offense taken. You're entitled to your opinion. I expect Carver will sell > every one they can make, as seems to be the problem with a lot of their recent > models.

> >Seriously, if you want a boat like that, why not buy a houseboat and be > >done with it? At least a houseboat is honest in what it is.

> That's a pretty ridiculous statement, even from you. You are essentially > saying that if a product's attributes don't appeal to you as functional for > your purposes, it's dishonest. Hey man, get a grip. The planet spins with or > without you. > > -- Rich Stern

> > No offense, Rich, but that 40' Carver, at least the one depicted on the > Carver website (396 motor yacht), is among the ugliest boats I have ever > seen.

> It looks like a doublewide manufactured home with a huge lifting > handle, with some canard of a back porch-diving board right behind that > radar arch.

> With all that windage, it must be a terror to dock.

> And the > standard engines on that 28,000-pound monster are a pair of big block > V-8 gasoline slurpers? Holy Batman, who makes the boat, OPEC?

> > Seriously, if you want a boat like that, why not buy a houseboat and be > done with it? At least a houseboat is honest in what it is.

> > I own a 36' Mariner, which is certainly an odd configuration. The lack > of any forward facing windows gives the boat a funny look to start with,

> > > It looks like a doublewide manufactured home with a huge lifting > > handle, with some canard of a back porch-diving board right behind that > > radar arch. > > What, you object to people diving off their boats?

> > > With all that windage, it must be a terror to dock. > > A valid concern. It gets worse with the canvas enclosures that people > often add. Prospective buyers should be aware that a shallow draft, > high windage boat will be harder to dock in high winds than a deep vee, > lower profile model. It is a trade off that has to be made.

> > > And the > > standard engines on that 28,000-pound monster are a pair of big block > > V-8 gasoline slurpers? Holy Batman, who makes the boat, OPEC? > > The Carver web page lists 7 different engine options for the 396: two > different Mercruiser gas engines, two different Volvo gas engines, two > different Cummins diesels, and a Volvo diesel. I don't see where they > state what the "standard" engine is.

> > Of course, you could buy a top of the line boat, like a Hatteras 50 > foot convertible, which comes equipped with a pair of Cat 3412E > engines. Nothing like a 1400 Hp, 12 cylinder monster to make those V-8 > Carver uses look puny.

> >Interestingly, the psychotherapist in the family is pushing me towards > >buying a new boat on which you can sleep comfortably, cook a meal, watch > >TV, get out of the weather, rest out of the sun, have air conditioning, > >store food and carry a lot of people. It's smaller than that Carver > >under discussion, but it will safely handle offshore conditions. >

>Sorry to reply to my own post, but you notice how Skipper has >COMPLETELY ignored this message. Got'im, right in the cojones. > >Ron M.

Dig around that message board. The guy's experience comes across pretty well, and there are plenty of details. I guess this is where you'll tell me that you don't have time to waste on a subject you don't really care that much about. I understand. I know you are pressed for time. So many threads to interupt, so little time...

>No such label needed. It is obvious from looking at my boat that you >cannot sleep on it, cook on it, et cetera or so forth. But to a >neophyte, that big Carver might look as if it might be up to more than >sheltered water use."

>Interestingly, the psychotherapist in the family is pushing me towards >buying a new boat on which you can sleep comfortably, cook a meal, watch >TV, get out of the weather, rest out of the sun, have air conditioning, >store food and carry a lot of people. It's smaller than that Carver >under discussion, but it will safely handle offshore conditions.

And while I might like the boat you pick for some reasons, I would probably not buy the same model because it wouldn't fit my needs. I don't have enough of an ego to call it an bad product just because it wouldn't work based on my boating value system.

.> I do believe that particular boat's design is intellectually >dishonest.

Huh? We are talking about a style of boat that has been extremely successful for a large number of boat builders, for well over a decade. The aft cabin style has been built by some of the "best" production builders in the industry. They hold resale as well or better than many other production boat styles. Obviously, people who buy them, like them.

>I wouldn't call it "bad" because it doesn't suit my needs.

>You're talking about style. I am talking about design. They aren't the >same.

"RBStern" < [email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> What is it about the design of that aft cabin that sets it dramatically apart > from other aft cabins?

> And "ungainly walrus" seems to be a style comment, since you are referring to > the lines of the boat.

> Harry, face it: Aft cabin is to Harry Krause what homosexual is to Jerry > Fallwell. Not natural. To be feared. Shunned. Not in the creator's image (a > deep vee with lots of bow flare and diesels). > > -- Rich Stern

Bruce Friedell

The follow up question I asked was: "What is it about the design of that aft

cabin that sets it dramatically apart from other aft cabins?"

>A number of other after cabin boats I have seen were designed to be >boats, not floating condos.

>The boat is well-balanced visually,

>and has a raised deck over the rear >cabin.

>The decks along each side of the cabin allow easy movement to the >bow and cockpit, and there are waist high safety railings.

>The hull form >is a modified vee, with sharp forward sections that make for easy entry >into head seas and choppy water.

>The hull is solid glass. While the Hatt >is a couple of feet shorter than the Carver, it is heavier because of >its more solid construction. The stringers are foam cored with steel >plates for the engines. There are serious bulkheads, bonded to the hull >with lots of glass cloth and resin.

>The water, fuel and holding tanks >are fiberglass.

>The joinery is mostly solid hardwood.

>The Hatt is designed for coastal cruising. It looks like a boat and >handles like a boat. The Carver, I suppose, is for more protected >waters. To me, it looks like a curvilinear double decker houseboat that >stopped off in Italy for a facelift. >

>The Hatt 38 was designed by a man who practiced the belief that function >was the basis of good design, and that boats should look good without a >lot of "trick" decorative touches or trim.

>The Carver was designed, probably by a committee and "focus groups, to >be just the opposite.

>The entire boat is tricked up. As an example of >the latter, I would point to the strange, eliptical and really ugly >windows on the hullsides of the Carver,

and the "radar arch cum >fiberglass roof" structure on the Carver and the fact that there appears >to be no bimini top possibilities for the topside control station.

>And >the sharply sloping gunnels on the Carver do not inspire confidence if >you have to walk forward outside of the cabin.

>I don't know what the Carver sells for new. The used Hatt in terrific >shape with fresh diesels is under $100,000.

> Sorry to reply to my own post, but you notice how Skipper has COMPLETELY > ignored this message. Got'im, right in the cojones.

>> Looking for testimony? Pick up the latest issue of Sea magazine. This >> month's feature article is a rave review of the subject Carver 396. >> While this boat may not be up to the standards of your mighty issue, >> most of us would find it a step up.

> If I won a brand new one in a lottery, I'd sell it without ever splashing it > into the water. I don't know what it sells for new, but if you trucked it to > the right place, you might realize enough to buy a new Cabo 31.

>> Newsstand price is $3.50. Very informative boating magazine. ...The >> boat, base $248,495, as tested $257,920.

> Damn hate to take skippers side on this one but so far youve been comparing > apples to oranges.40ft carver to a 31 cabo comon. In a storm 31 cabo at the > dock holding a martini 40 carver.For a new subject lets compare skippers > knowledge of boat to Karls.

>>> Got'im, right in the cojones.

>> Looking for testimony? Pick up the latest issue of Sea magazine. This >> month's feature article is a rave review of the subject Carver 396. While >> this boat may not be up to the standards of your mighty issue, most of us >> would find it a step up. >> Ref, have you ever noticed that those who do the most bashing tend to own >> boats with wet pounding rides not up to the challenge. Think there's a >> correlation?

> Well, Skipper, you're just verifying my point. You're not even talking about

> the same BOAT, much less answering the simple question I posed in the > original message, and which continue to collect dust while you indulge in > nebulous, irrelevant topic-switching.

>I doubt it. Ref probably would do what I would do if either of us won a >new one in a lottery. We'd sell it before it every splashed into the >water and use the proceeds to fund the Bayliner Roadside Cleanup Fund, a >not-for-profit agency that arranges for the pickup and eventual grinding >down of Bayliners abandoned by their owners.

GRIND EM??? Please don't. Just take them a few miles offshore and pull the plug. They make good artificial reef material.

Russ Glindmeier

>> The subject of this thread is Carver boats. That's C-A-R-V-E-R. While >> we're on that subject, would that Quarter million dollar C-A-R-V-E-R be >> a step up for you, Ref?

> No, Skipper. The subject is your response to the Pascoe photographs that > showed crummy 1" stringers held on by tiny pieces of tape, and cheap > pop-rivets. You said the photos were phony, and I asked for clarification, > e.g. "did they replace the stringers just for the photo?" and so on. > > You have yet to reply, Skipper, and you won't, because you KNOW I've > caught you with your pants down. Face the music, Skipper. You've had > it. You're sunk this time. No way you can get out of this one. > > Checkmate.

> Ohh was excited for a moment. > Thought Skipper was starting to figure out Life, the Universe, > and Everything. But alas it's just alta vista.

> >> >> Ref, have you ever noticed that those who do the most bashing tend to own > >> >> boats with wet pounding rides not up to the challenge. Think there's a > >> >> correlation? > >> > >> > Well, Skipper, you're just verifying my point. You're not even talking about > >> > the same BOAT, much less answering the simple question I posed in the > >> > original message, and which continue to collect dust while you indulge in > >> > nebulous, irrelevant topic-switching. > >>

> >> The subject of this thread is Carver boats. That's C-A-R-V-E-R. While > >> we're on that subject, would that Quarter million dollar C-A-R-V-E-R be > >> a step up for you, Ref? >

> No, Skipper. The subject is your response to the Pascoe photographs that > showed crummy 1" stringers held on by tiny pieces of tape, and cheap > pop-rivets. You said the photos were phony, and I asked for clarification, > e.g. "did they replace the stringers just for the photo?" and so on. > > You have yet to reply, Skipper, and you won't, because you KNOW I've > caught you with your pants down. Face the music, Skipper. You've had > it. You're sunk this time. No way you can get out of this one. > > Checkmate. >

Wise-Answer

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Are Carver boats seaworthy?

Table of Contents

• 1 Are Carver boats seaworthy?
• 2 Is Carver a good brand of boat?
• 3 What are the 4 length classes of vessels?
• 4 What is a well found boat?
• 5 When did Carver stop making boats?
• 6 What is the most stable type of boat?

If you want an offshore boat, you’ll put seaworthiness at the top of your priority list. “A boat like a Carver or Silverton is fine for people who want a mobile home on the water, a roomy cocktail barge for use at the dock or in sheltered waters,” says Phin.

Is Carver a good brand of boat?

They’re solid, dependable, and powerful while still somehow being miserly on fuel. Another factor is the ambient light in the salon. Way more natural lighting from much larger windows in the Carver. SeaRay builds a very nice boat, too.

What is the best hull for ponds?

A flat planing hull is typically found on smaller, open boats and has a shallow draft, which is good for fishing in small lakes, ponds and slow-moving rivers. Doesn’t handle as well in choppy waters, where it can ride roughly. This displacement-type hull has greater stability due to its wide beam.

What are the 4 length classes of vessels?

Let’s review the four different classes of recreational boats as determined by length.

• Class A. Boats measuring less than 16 feet.
• Class 1. Boats measuring more than 16 feet but less than 26 feet.
• Class 2. Boats measuring more than 26 feet but less than 40 feet.

What is a well found boat?

adjective. well-furnished with supplies, necessaries, etc.: a well-found ship.

Is Carver still building boats?

-based company will now concentrate exclusively on the yacht segment through its continued expansion of the Carver brand and relaunch of Marquis, with a new line of sport yachts under the guidance of president and CEO Rob Parmentier.

When did Carver stop making boats?

Over 100 of the 65 Motor Yachts were built from 2005 to 2008 in Pulaski, Wisconsin. Carver Yachts was hit hard during the great recession from 2007 to 2009 and their parent company Genmar declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2009. During this period Carver never stopped building yachts.

What is the most stable type of boat?

Multi-hulled boats are some of the most stable on the water. They also require more room to steer and turn. Examples of common multi-hulled boats are catamarans and pontoon boats.

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Yachting Monthly

• Digital edition

What makes a boat seaworthy?

• Duncan Kent
• April 17, 2020

What characteristics make a yacht fit for purpose? Duncan Kent explores the meaning of 'seaworthy' and how hull design and technology have changed the way we think

Hallberg-Rassy yachts have long been the epitome of a rock solid modern cruiser. These too have now changed to twin rudders. Credit: Rick Tomlinson Credit: Rick Tomlinson

A hundred years ago a yacht was considered seaworthy 
if it could stand up to a full gale whilst continuing to make headway under sail while still keeping its crew safe.

Today, yachts are designed and built using entirely different construction parameters, with far more emphasis on speed, ease of handling, openness and comfortable living.

Do any of the old maxims still apply or are new cruising yachts better than the classics?

A cutter rig gives you more options for reducing sail and balancing your canvas. Credit: Graham Snook/Yachting Monthly

There are many improvements to the contemporary offshore yacht that have indeed increased its seaworthiness.

Take sail plans and sail handling, for instance.

Fifty years ago it was common to battle your way to the bucking foredeck to change headsails as the wind reached screaming pitch.

Rarely would you be wearing a lifejacket either, as these consisted of big lumps of foam tied awkwardly together, which always got in the way of what you were doing.

Today, the fractional sloop rig with furling headsails is pretty much standard, so the foresails are smaller and the risk of leaving the cockpit to reef is removed.

Powered winches have revolutionised sail handling

Cutters or ‘slutters’ (twin headstays close to each other) seem to be the sail plan for long distance sailing and even downwind sails come with furlers and the yachts with bowsprits for their tacks.

The same goes for the mainsail which, even if it isn’t the furling type, is often fully battened and can usually be dropped safely into a zipped sail bag using cockpit-led sail controls.

There’s no doubt that this has brought about a massive improvement to the safety of the crew, and in turn the 
yacht’s general seaworthiness.

The introduction of modern ropes has also improved the life of the sailor no end.

Massively strong man-made fibres such as Spectra and Dyneema have allowed much lighter and smaller diameter lines to be used and many are changing their old steel shackles for the more user-friendly ‘soft’ shackles, eliminating the dangers of flying bits of heavy metal and making a corroded shackle pin a thing of the past.

Despite modern yachts being able to sail so much better than the classics in light airs, at some point you’ll need an engine – even if it’s just to charge your batteries.

Despite being relied upon so heavily these days, the good old marine diesel can be the cause 
of many headaches.

A properly designed engine installation will offer easy access 
to all the regular service points, particularly the water pump, fuel filters and water traps, alternator, coolant, oil filler, dipstick and 
filter and starter battery.

Hull design

One of today’s most prevalent and popular yacht designers is Stephen Jones, creator of the Rustler 33, 42 and 44, Starlight 35 and 39, the Hunter Mystery 35, Sadler 260, Southerly 32, 38 and 470 and many more performance cruisers as well as traditional racing designs such as the Spirit.

One of the primary reasons for his popularity is that he undoubtedly has the knack of blending tradition and technology – the result being 
a stunning combination of beauty and performance, rather than an indifferent compromise between new and old.

A Rustler 37, with an encapsulated keel, emerges from its mould. Credit: Graham Snook

Of his many classic designs Jones 
says: ‘Without doubt the modern CAD-derived hull outperforms all of those built in the days when the main criteria for 
a cruising yacht was just that it had to 
be virtually indestructible. I try to blend 
the aesthetically attractive elements with 
the best technology can offer in order to produce a yacht that doesn’t just look beautiful but is also exciting to sail.’

A great deal has changed in hull design since the advent of the famous Folkboat, some 50 years ago.

The advent of bolt-on keels has allowed bilges to be shallower, improving the yacht’s speed – especially off the wind.

Traditional long keels, with external and internal ballast, soften the motion at sea

Whereas a 50% ballast ratio used to be considered the norm for an offshore yacht, today fin keels often have the ballast placed deep down in a bulb at their tip, where it provides the greatest righting moment possible for the least amount of ballast, so it’s not uncommon to find the 
ratio is now more like 30-35%.

In addition, the keel’s short length reduces the wetted area and associated drag. Some insist that bolt-on keels are unseaworthy and indeed, accidents have happened where they have become detached. But these incidents are actually very rare and almost always the result of a hard grounding or poor maintenance.

Making the bilges too shallow made for 
a good deal of slamming when sailing to windward in many 1980-90s boats, but in later years this habit was eliminated with the introduction of finer bows with deeper entry.

Wider hulls

One downside of a wide, flat boat is that it can be almost as stable inverted as upright, so increasing the angle of heel at which the yacht’s stability vanishes (AVS) to the highest degree is very important.

Hull chines, which were originally introduced for plywood and steel boats to allow simple flat materials to be used in their construction, have made a widespread comeback over the past decade.

With sterns becoming wider and wider to improve accommodation below and cockpit space for twin wheels, any means of increasing a hull’s inherent form stability 
(the hull natural resistance to heeling and inversion) is welcome and hard chines appear to do just that – giving the hull defined ‘rails’ on which to run.

Modern: The Beneteau 46.1’s full-length chine and twin rudders. Credit: Guido Cantini / Beneteau

They also improve directional stability and help prevent the yacht rounding up when over-pressed.

More cruising yachts are disabled through loss of, or damage to their rudder by flotsam than almost anything else.

Traditionally, they were well protected either by a long keel or, more likely, a stout skeg at least half the depth of the rudder.

Classic: A long keel and a slender stern

The modern trend, however, appears to be for deep spade rudders with no such protection, and twin rudders are now becoming popular. Primarily they’re designed to keep steerage when the quarter of a very wide stern lifts clear of the water when heeled.

Some believe they provide redundancy in the event one is knocked off, but any amount of heel beyond 10° with a wide-sterned cruiser can cause 
the windward rudder to come out of the water. If you’ve lost a rudder, you are 
forced to remain on one tack or to sail dead downwind.

More importantly, unless you’re smart (like renowned circumnavigator Jimmy Cornell with his new Aventura ) and you ensure each rudder can be independently steered, damage to one rudder will very likely disable the entire steering system 
due to the linkage between them.

Although there’s a tendency these days 
for yacht designers to prioritise style over substance, the wide-open cockpits of the modern production cruiser can fulfil both 
the need for lounging space at anchor and safety at sea by making a few simple, relatively inexpensive modifications.

Before embarking on regular offshore passages, the owner needs to carry out a careful analysis of the likely risk areas and to retro-fit extra safety features such as grabrails and harness points where necessary.

The centre cockpit, made famous by 
Bill Dixon in his many Moody yachts, is still popular in many Swedish yachts, but like many aspects of yacht design it has its advantages and disadvantages.

The Amel 55 is designed to take her owners anywhere in the world in comfort. Credit: Graham Snook/Yachting Monthly

Being higher up and forward in the boat means that water rarely gets near it and it often imparts a feeling of security in the crew being so far above the water.

However, it does restrict the helmsman’s view forward when the genoa’s flying and it can make those prone to seasickness feel worse 
due to the more pronounced side-to-side movement in a beam sea.

One real bonus, however, is the raised height allows for huge aft cabins – something for which Moody and Halberg-Rassy yachts are renowned.

An aft cockpit, though more vulnerable 
to a steep following sea, does make you 
feel more in touch with the boat somehow.

A high bridge deck or similar can greatly reduce the risk of down-flooding from the stern in stormy conditions.

Below decks

The seaworthiness of a yacht is not only affected by its hull design and rig, but also how sea kindly it is below.

For a start, those wanting to cruise overnight will need a decent bunk for the off-watch crew.

By that 
I mean one that’s preferably close to the middle of the boat and that can be converted to a comfy, secure single berth.

In most production cruisers this will mean the saloon berths, so if you’re looking to buy it’s worth just checking the length, width and suitability of these.

The raised coachroof of the Garcia 45 Exploration gives comfort below, while granny bars at the mast keep crew on deck secure. Credit: Morris Adant

If not, then double berths can often be converted using lee cloths or boards, which can be removed or folded away when at anchor or in port. The worst place for a sea berth is in the forepeak, as this is where the motion will be greatest.

You’ll often need to add a few handrails around the boat too, especially as you descend the companionway. A little clever repositioning or subtle padding of furniture can make a difference.

One of the most important aspects of boat safety is the through hull fittings. It’s a good idea to draw a sketch of where they all are and what they do so that crew unfamiliar with the boat could find them quickly in an emergency.

Also ensure all your seacocks are good quality marine devices (Bronze or DZR), not domestic plumbing ones (worryingly common on many new boats) and that you tie a suitable softwood bung to it.

Choosing a yacht

The very first question you should ask yourself when considering buying a yacht 
is ‘what do I intend to do on this boat?’

The answer should then steer you towards the type of yacht suitable for your endeavours, whether they be pootling along the coast 
on fair weather days and tying up in a marina berth at night or taking your family on long passages in open and unprotected offshore waters.

The former is catered for by myriad production boatbuilders and should be reasonably affordable. The latter not so.

A properly designed and constructed offshore yacht will cost much more – probably three to four times as much as a production cruiser – and rightly so.

All that extra investment will be reflected in the integrity of the design, the quality of the materials used and the standard of craftsmanship put into building her.

Saying that, it’s a myth that many pocket cruisers are inherently dangerous if sailed offshore.

Roger Taylor converted his Achilles 24 to sail to some of the most remote high latitudes imaginable

I’ve often felt happier sailing a 
well-found 26-footer across the English Channel in a near gale than I would have 
felt in a modern 50ft production cruiser set up for day sailing in fine conditions.

I know this rather makes a mockery of the RCD categorisation scheme (A-ocean; B-offshore etc), but often smaller boats are only Cat B 
or C because the builders can’t afford the more stringent testing for higher categories.

Any sailor worth their salt will know that 
a large portion of a vessel’s ability to sail safely offshore is in how you prepare your boat and crew beforehand and many adventurous sailors have ventured far afield without incident in small yachts.

Roger Taylor single-handedly overcome the vagaries of the northern latitude weather systems, covering thousands of miles safely in the same type boat in which Ellen MacArthur first circumnavigated Britain.

Shane Acton’s 18ft long Caprice, Shrimpy , would never get an RCD A (Ocean) rating whatever you did to it, but she proved seaworthy enough to get Acton around the world in one piece.

Without doubt, there have been numerous innovations over the past few decades that have made offshore sailing easier.

Effective self-steering made Jean-Luc Van Den Heede’s life easier in the 2018 Golden Globe Race. The Rustler 36 was the boat of choice in the race, sailed by the first three finishers. Credit: Alain Zimeray/Golden Globe Race/PPL

A crew 
of two can now easily handle the latest 60ft yacht, thanks in particular to cockpit sail controls, electrically assisted deck gear and up-to-the-minute navigation technology.

Duncan Kent has tested hundreds of yachts and is the author of Choosing and Buying A Yacht

The greatest advantage a modern yacht has over an older, heavier boat is speed. A modern yacht’s ability to make headway fast is in fact one of its most seaworthy points as it allows the crew to navigate around a slow-moving storm or to sail off 
a dangerous lee shore in the event the engine dies or the anchor drags.

Problems encountered by many of the 2018 Golden Globe Race (GGR) entrants were certainly aggravated by their inability to sail faster than a few knots away from threatening weather.

Instead, they had to sit it out, hoping their sluggish old classics would be tough enough to take the hammering of the Southern Ocean waves.

Most recently launched hulls are a huge improvement over the over-engineered 20th-Century designs, but changes in style mean compromises will have to be made to ensure your yacht is as seaworthy as it can be.

Wide, open cockpits require more clipping on points and extra handrails, and for those planning to go world cruising in 
a standard production boat, much of the 
kit supplied will need to be upgraded before you set off.

Top tips to improve seaworthiness before blue- water cruising

• Install watertight crash bulkheads forward and aft (forward of the rudder stock).
• Move heavy items such as batteries, tanks, spare anchors and tinned provisions as low and as close to the centre of the boat as possible and ensure they are strapped down.
• Make sure all locker lids, soleboards and washboards can be securely locked in place.
• Pre-build a workable emergency steering system and test it out in heavy seas before you depart.
• Create easy-launch stowage for the liferaft.
• Carry several heavy lines, a series drogue and a sea anchor.

Ensure the right size bungs are attached to your seacocks

• Make tough wooden shutters and easy attachments for vulnerable hatches and portlights.
• Any windows in the topsides should be non-opening and made from seriously reinforced glass.

Have a means of locking stowage shut. Credit: Graham Snook/Yachting Monthly

• Tie suitable bungs to every skin fitting for emergency use.
• Fit fire extinguishers of varying sorts near to where they might be needed and keep them regularly serviced.
• Fit a bilge alarm and dual electric bilge pumps plus a manual.

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February, 2018

Boating purists are quick to point out that a "real" trawler is built on a full displacement hull with only a single diesel engine for power. By that rigid standard, most of the boats we call trawlers these days fail to measure up. Nearly everyone thinks of the classic Grand Banks 42 as a trawler, but in fact Grand Banks models all ride on semi-displacement hulls, and they mostly came with twin engines. Same with most of the Taiwan-built trawlers that flooded the U.S. market in the 1970s and '80s, as well as all of the popular Mainship Trawlers that were so successful before the company cratered during the Great Recession. These boats are perhaps better described as "performance trawlers."

Profiled below are eight go-anywhere trawler yachts that have stood the test of time. And no, we didn’t forget the Nordhavn series of displacement trawlers—a Nordhavn-specific blog article can be found here .

DeFever 44 Offshore Cruiser

Hatteras 48 LRC

At a Glance:   A classic Hatteras yacht — one of only a handful of American-built trawler yachts.  Most 48s were delivered with two-stateroom teak interiors featuring a full-beam salon with L-shaped settee and coffee table to port, U-shaped galley (with breakfast bar) forward, and spiral companionway to starboard. The full-beam master stateroom of the Hatteras 48 is amidship with built-in dresser and private en-suite head with stall shower. Forward, the guest stateroom has V-berths, storage drawers, and private access to a head with shower. The pilothouse, four steps up from the salon, includes a U-shaped dinette, single watch berth, and port/starboard deck doors. Topside, the boat deck is designed to carry a dinghy and hoist. A cockpit transom door assists boarding. No lightweight, twin 112hp GM 4-53N diesels cruise the Hatteras 48 LRC at 8–9 knots. Over 40 were built.

Price Range: From the mid $100s to high $200s.

At a Glance:   Seaworthy, comfortable and economical — over 150 DeFever 44s were sold. Heavily constructed on a full displacement hull, the DeFever 44 is a rare flush deck design with the aft deck and side decks on the same level. The result boat with slightly higher freeboard, but with an enormous aft deck area perfect for entertaining. The DeFever 44’s roomy two-stateroom interior is arranged with the galley aft in the salon where it’s easily reached from the aft deck and flybridge.   Grab rails in the salon overhead are a nice touch, and large windows provide panoramic views of the water. Note the pass-thru window from the galley to the aft deck. The full-beam master stateroom is huge with tons of storage and space for a washer and dryer. A great feature is the walk-in engine room with workbench and near standing headroom. Twin 135hp Lehman diesels cruise at 7–8 knots with a range of 1,500 nautical miles.

Price Range: From $75–80K to the mid/high 200s.

Krogen 42 Trawler

Krogen 39 Trawler

At a Glance:   Replacement boat for the legendary Krogen 42 — seaworthy and comfortable, the single stateroom interior of the Krogen 39 is designed for the cruising couple. Entering the salon from the aft deck, a dinette is to port and an L-shaped settee with fold-out table is to starboard. The compact galley is located forward in the salon on the starboard side.  Four steps up from the salon/galley, the Krogen 39’s raised pilothouse offers commanding views of the water. Port and starboard Dutch doors provide quick deck access, and the settee behind the helm pulls out to form a watch berth. The stateroom and head are reached from the pilothouse—the head is on the starboard side, and the stateroom with island queen berth is forward. One of the great features of the Krogen 39 is her standup engine room. A single 121hp John Deere diesel will cruise at 7–8 knots with a range of 2,000+ miles.

Price Range: From  the mid $200s to the high $300s.

At a Glance:   An iconic Krogen design with a ballasted displacement hull and tremendous storage — a proven cruising or liveaboard yacht. The hull is solid fiberglass below the waterline and cored above. Until hull #65 (1985), they were built with glass-over-plywood decks; thereafter, they were built with a cored deck and superstructure. There are two versions, the Standard model with walkaround side decks, and Widebody model (introduced in 1989) with a full-width salon. Both versions were available with two lower-level accommodation plans. Double doors open from the aft deck to the salon where an L-shaped sofa and table are to starboard. The galley is forward, on the starboard side of the salon. The focal point of the Krogen 42 is the pilothouse with watch berth, overhead hatches, and port/starboard deck doors. A single 120hp Lehman diesel will cruise at 7–8 knots. A total of 206 were built.

Price Range: From about $100K to mid/high $200s.

Krogen 44 Trawler

Selene 53-54

At a Glance:   Heavily built passage maker for cruising in comfort and security — Selene sold a lot of these yachts. The interior is finished in satin varnished cherry wood with teak and holly flooring throughout. The focal point of this yacht is her well-appointed pilothouse — fronted by a Portuguese bridge—that towers high above the water. A U-shaped galley complete with full-size refrigerator is forward in the salon. Below, the living quarters consist of three staterooms and two full heads. The full-beam amidships master stateroom has direct access to the Selene’s standup engineroom (also reached via a spiral staircase opposite the galley). The forward VIP stateroom has an island queen berth, and the second guest stateroom to port has twin single berths. Teak is used on all exterior deck surfaces.  A single 430hp Cummins diesel—or twin 230hp Cummins diesels—cruise at 8–9 knots.

Price Range: From around $500K to over $1 million.

2001–Current

At a Glance:   Based on the original Krogen 42 — a serious long range yacht for the cruising couple. The added length of the 44 can be seen in her larger pilothouse and roomier aft deck. A not-so-obvious upgrade is that the pilothouse, flybridge and boat deck are a single mold instead of fastened together providing a much stronger structure. The interior of the 44 is similar to her predecessor. An L-shaped settee is to starboard in the salon, opposite two occasional chairs, and a U-shaped galley is forward, also to starboard. Accessed from companionway steps forward of the salon, the guest stateroom with convertible settee, desk, and book shelves doubles as a den/office. The single head is to port, and master stateroom with island queen berth is forward. Note the weathertight doors and windows. A Widebody version came out in 2006. A 158hp John Deere diesel will cruise at 8 knots with a range of 2,000-plus nautical miles.

Price Range: From about $600K to over $1 million.

2004–Current

Lord Nelson Victory Tug 37

At a Glance:   A quality-built displacement trawler perfect for cruising the world in comfort and safety. Several interiors are available in the Selene 47, all with the galley forward in the salon. Accessed from companionway steps forward in the salon, the two stateroom, two head layout includes twin single berths in the port guest stateroom and a walkaround queen berth in the forward master stateroom. The master stateroom head features a tub, and a washer/dryer unit is located at the foot of the companionway steps. Part of the guest cabin bulkhead folds away to create a large common area abaft the master stateroom. A large storage area is between the engine room and lazarette. In addition to great visibility, the pilothouse features a watch berth and inside access to the flybridge. A single 330hp Cummins diesel will cruise at 8 knots with a range of 2,000+ miles.

Price Range: From the mid $200s to mid/high $600s.

At a Glance:   Based on a traditional New England workboat hull — 76 of these popular boats were delivered. Her teak batten interior, functional pilothouse, large galley, and wide walkaround decks with substantial bulwarks will appeal to the discerning yachtsman. The salon and galley are three steps down from the pilothouse. The U-shaped galley has a serving counter, and the convertible salon settee has storage space below. A pantry door in the galley opens to the engine room. The salon sole is teak and holly, and the overhead is tongue and groove teak. Forward of the pilothouse, the stateroom features a double berth and head with stall shower. The original teak decks were ultimately eliminated in favor of fiberglass, and the teak handrails were replaced with stainless steel late in her production run. The Victory Tug 37 has a cruising range of 800–900 miles at 7 knots with a single 150hp Cummins diesel.

Price Range: From $75–80K to the mid $100s.

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timvail Senior Member

We have just recently sold our sea ray and are looking to purchase between 35 to 40 foot MY. We have been looking at carvers as we like the layout. We have recently heard some discouraging news regarding the older ones. Any comments or suggestions would be most helpful.\tks tim

wscott52 Senior Member

I don't know specifics, someone here will, but the Carvers I've been on didn't seem very well built. I think Sea Ray is generally a better built boat. I did have a marine surveyor once, after ragging on Carvers, tell me Silvertons were surprisingly well built boats.

CaptTom Senior Member

My family and I had a 1987 34 Silverton Convertible for 17 years. Based in Long Island, NY, we cruised all over the south shore, around Manhattan, tons of offshore ocean fishing, even up the Hudson to Albany. Nice, solid hull, all glass at least below the waterline. Drilled a hole in the bottom for a transducer and the plug had no wood or coring. Had it in 6+ footers a few times. It's not always the build of the boat that makes an experience good or bad but the experience and knowledge behind the wheel. Anyway, sleeps 4 comfy, 6 is possible, you'll have more options with kids (i.e. took the dinette table down and had my infant son sleep on the dinette floor on blankets, worked well. 40-fotters around the late 1980's had same type of layout but much more room, which may suite you.

RER Senior Member

Not sure what you mean by 'older' ...some people think a 2002 model is old. With an older boat, and I'll assume you mean at least 10 years old, I don't get too hung up on model year or brand. If it's 10 years old or 15 years old what matters to me is the care the boat has received and the condition that it's in. When I buy an older boat I look at it like I'm paying the seller for care and upkeep during the period of time he's owned it. I value a knowledgeable owner/seller as much or more than a particular brand.

mbgator New Member

Older Carver's Last summer we purchased a '85 Carver Riviera. 28' with twin crusaders. Very well maintained. We are the 3rd owner, first had it for 17 years and loved the boat dearly. The 2nd owner just kept it at the marina and didn't use it. After a thorough survey, weeks of cleaning - we are very proud of her. Solid boat for a 28 footer.

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Pegasus.jpg.

By older we mean something late '80s. Specifically we had been looking at 3607's or 3807's. And in the mid '90's, perhaps the 355. We'd always thought Carvers to be solid, well made boats....there are certainly a number of them around here, and are popular, but after doing a little research, have heard a number of sources tell us that they are not as solid as they appear. mbgator: contrats on your Riviera! Just a few years ago that was our "dream boat". But at the time, they were out of our range and now we'd like something a little different. Nice boat though!

Fireman431 Senior Member

I have a 2001 Carver 374 Voyager. I am the second owner and picked it up after realizing what a decent boat they really are. I have done a lot of research on the Carvers, Silvertons, Meridian (Bayliner), Maxums, etc. The older Carvers, generally older than the early 90's, weren't constructed as well. They had foam and coring below the waterline and lots of wood in their stringers. As the manufacturing process progressed, they had to come into compliance with stricter guidelines for the NMMA certifications. My vessel has no coring (fiberglass only) below the waterline. TONS of sealent between fittings and with all fasteners, very nice fit & finish to all fiberglass parts--no giant gaps to fill in with caulking. The interiors are some the best in their mid-range cruiser class. Just make sure that the boat has been preperly cared for and all maintenance completed as scheduled. Good luck on whatever purchase you make.

geriksen Senior Member

We work on a lot of them here. Quality is between Silverton and Sea Ray. The biggest problem we see is that they had layup issues that lead to massive blisters. Big, deep ones. I have seen some that almost go all the way though the hull on Carvers.. The Santego's are actually great boats but don't sell very well. The old 4207 was a great boat with 3208 cats. Some of the other models are just plain goofy. We call the Mariner "the orthopedic shoe" After 2001 they all sort of look like plastic bubbles like Meridian, Silverton, etc.

CaptTom said: My family and I had a 1987 34 Silverton Convertible for 17 years. Based in Long Island, NY, we cruised all over the south shore, around Manhattan, tons of offshore ocean fishing, even up the Hudson to Albany. Nice, solid hull, all glass at least below the waterline. Drilled a hole in the bottom for a transducer and the plug had no wood or coring. Had it in 6+ footers a few times. It's not always the build of the boat that makes an experience good or bad but the experience and knowledge behind the wheel. Anyway, sleeps 4 comfy, 6 is possible, you'll have more options with kids (i.e. took the dinette table down and had my infant son sleep on the dinette floor on blankets, worked well. 40-fotters around the late 1980's had same type of layout but much more room, which may suite you. Click to expand...

carver boats Thanks everyone for your help. I hope a good surveyer can locate the concerns that may arise in the boat we choose.

Regarding your surveyor: 1) They hate it, but watch everything the surveyor does. I had the survey done on my boat and they provided everything including compression tests on the engine. They indicated each cylinder pressure, took oil samples for the engines and genset, pulled the boat and checked the hull, out drives, shafts, seals, etc. However, I discovered that they forged the cylinder pressures because there was a broken plug that they missed plus one that was seized in the cylinder head. That was because the big fat surveyor couldn't get his bug butt on the outboard side of the engines. 2) Get a reputable company. There are fly-by-night compaines that won't certify their results. Get someone that's beenin business for a while. 3) By sticking with the surveyor and asking questions, you're likely to learn somehing about the vessel and what to look for on your own. I learned a lot about what to look for on the hull and shafts when I pull the boat for zincs and visable inspection.

geriksen said: We work on a lot of them here. Quality is between Silverton and Sea Ray. The biggest problem we see is that they had layup issues that lead to massive blisters. Big, deep ones. I have seen some that almost go all the way though the hull on Carvers. Click to expand...

NYCAP123 Senior Member

Fireman431 said: Regarding your surveyor: 1) They hate it, but watch everything the surveyor does. I had the survey done on my boat and they provided everything including compression tests on the engine. They indicated each cylinder pressure, took oil samples for the engines and genset, pulled the boat and checked the hull, out drives, shafts, seals, etc. However, I discovered that they forged the cylinder pressures because there was a broken plug that they missed plus one that was seized in the cylinder head. That was because the big fat surveyor couldn't get his bug butt on the outboard side of the engines. 2) Get a reputable company. There are fly-by-night compaines that won't certify their results. Get someone that's beenin business for a while. 3) By sticking with the surveyor and asking questions, you're likely to learn somehing about the vessel and what to look for on your own. I learned a lot about what to look for on the hull and shafts when I pull the boat for zincs and visable inspection. Click to expand...

joe miglio New Member

mbgator said: ↑ Older Carver's Last summer we purchased a '85 Carver Riviera. 28' with twin crusaders. Very well maintained. We are the 3rd owner, first had it for 17 years and loved the boat dearly. The 2nd owner just kept it at the marina and didn't use it. After a thorough survey, weeks of cleaning - we are very proud of her. Solid boat for a 28 footer. Click to expand...

Capt J Senior Member

wscott52 said: ↑ I don't know specifics, someone here will, but the Carvers I've been on didn't seem very well built. I think Sea Ray is generally a better built boat. I did have a marine surveyor once, after ragging on Carvers, tell me Silvertons were surprisingly well built boats. Click to expand...

Joe Thanks for reaching-out. We loved our Riveria and occasionally discuss how much we enjoyed the boat. When first purchased, the survey returned a single page of recommended items, all cleared-up within a weekend. Very little was noted, and nothing structural. Very solid boat, easy to handle and a breeze to dock. While not as fast as a 30 Sundancer, she was easily as stable and had twice as much 'livable' room aboard. Fuel consumption is relative, but I ran her at 17 - 18 knots and averaged about 20 gph at that speed on Lake Michigan. I could keep her on plane at as little as 15 knots before she fell-off. One downside to note - she's not a 'dry boat', the bow doesn't have enough flare to keep all the spray off the windshield, but that wasn't a problem. Does the boat you are looking-at have A/C, is it gas or diesel, genset installed? Keep us posted.

Cindy F New Member

We are also looking at a 1986 Riviera and would appreciate any comments about the boat. It has been completely restored inside with all new cushions etc. It seems to have been very well maintained. I 've read a lot of negative reviews about Carver boats, especially the older ones. We don't plan on any long trips, just want to explore the SW Florida coastline. I'm wondering if it may be a good little boat for us, as its very roomy below. The price is $30,000, so for the money, we can't expect too much. The engine has been refurbished and has 700 hours. Any thoughts on this boat?

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