Feb 9, 2013 · A perfect example of Payne's outstanding design can be found in the 40-foot steel sloop Aeolian which currently graces the waters of the Swan River in Perth. Aeolian is one of Payne's famous Koonya designs but slightly modified from her sisters. She was built in Sydney by professional boat builder Peter Bracken in 1985 after Payne had re-drawn ... ... When Sir Frank Packer and the Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron—of which Payne was a member—challenged for the 1962 America’s Cup, Payne was commissioned to design the Australian challenger, Gretel. He studied both the complicated design rules of the competition’s 12-metre class, and the lines of the American vessel Vim , which was chartered ... ... Alan Payne was a yacht designer who was born in Great Britain but spent his career in Australia. He is probably best known as the designer of the 12 meter ‘Gretel II’, that very nearly took away the America’s cup in 1970. In 1993, he was honored as a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for his contribution to Australian yachting. ... ">

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07-11-2011, 17:30  
Boat: No boat, looking again.
would be reasonable for cruising up and down the of short handed?

It is an Alan Payne design. I was told she is an Ampopetta Class No. 2, 39 foot (45 if include bowsprit), 9 foot beam, 5 foot 6. Her sister ship did the to Hobart yacht .



On the 'net, I found out that on 9 Nov 1960, the largest yacht ever built in was launched in , built by E J Goldsteen and designed by Alan Payne. It was called Ampopetta and was 40 ' with 4' 9" and beam over 10'. Apparently it was built to the Sydney to Hobart and did two of them. The beam and draft are different to the one on ebay but it is probably the sister ship to the ebay one.

The only other mention I can find is that a Mac Shannon of Sydney had an Ampopetta called Chione designed by Alan Payne. That is not much info.

So, what do you think this would be like to sail?
07-11-2011, 19:30  
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
. If construction is sound then should be good depending on aspiration. Not heavy so long term living maybe not.
07-11-2011, 20:02  
Boat: No boat, looking again.
07-11-2011, 22:59  
Boat: No boat, looking again.
40, the beam is 13 feet. The Alan Payne yacht has a beam of 9 feet so a huge difference in width. What difference does a narrow beam make for sailing?
07-11-2011, 23:55  
Boat: Custom Freya 20m
40, the beam is 13 feet. The Alan Payne yacht has a beam of 9 feet so a huge difference in width. What difference does a narrow beam make for sailing?
08-11-2011, 04:53  
Boat: Boden 36 Triple chine long keel steel, named Nekeyah
.
Regards,
Richard.
08-11-2011, 05:03  
she'll be a dream... and fast...

...
08-11-2011, 06:20  
would be your best first step
alan payne was a great . i rememvber his america's cup designs
any chanc this was home built. if so is it built to the design or customized/improved .
09-11-2011, 13:16  
Boat: Peterson 46
over the bow]

Cruising the qld coast in it, will be a breeze..
10-11-2011, 05:24  
Boat: 50' Robert Beebe Passagemaker
yacht.
Second, Alan Payne designs are eminently but wet, cramped and hobbled by the of the day (long overhangs to around the RORC rule).
I cruised thousands of miles around Australia in a 34' Robert Clark design modified by AP, which was a great sailing boat, but with only 8'6" beam had less room than the heads on my yacht. And with long overhangs had a tendency to hobby-horse in the east australian chop - end result: going nowhere.
Did I mention WET?!!!

Hahaha - never again!

Stick with glass if you can afford it, and if not go plank-on-frame or West System if you a daft enough (like me) to own a wooden boat.

PM or me if you need more ...
12-11-2011, 05:15  
Boat: Mose & Hoye Pty Ltd Ampopette class 39'10"
, , and look the same, dog house, selfdrain ?, crazy change etc. It is very , I would sail it before I bought it. As designed by uncle Alan, it would sail to windward by itself, just trim the to refine course, dry too as the long bow divides the waves and the chines push the spray away, the 10' 4"beam helps too. The lute stern and bow overhang increase the waterline lenght making it a very fast upright ride. Originally it had a Stewart Turner 10 hp installed under the driving the 20 x 18 prop via 4 "A" belts 3to1 reduction, would do 6 1/2 knots astern but hang on to the tiller as the balance would take charge if you let go, the lever was a "tram"handle thru the bridge between the cockpit and , I could sail Ampopetta handed and often did as Dad liked to have a few. I think #2 was called Rudged Kipling although I need more memory proding. I still have the design model and APs plans, was thinking of making a scale model just big enough for one person to sail, yeah, just thinking. As for the alterations, I can't see how you could sail it sitting up on the stern, same with trying to sleep at sea in the forward bunks, the original design was well thought out, was comfortable and safe, I would restore it. Before I would buy it make sure the ply at the chines is OK, also pull some that were tapped into the iron fin 4" to check for , they were set in redlead and linceed , chech the rudder has no in it, just make a new one if rusted, cheapest way.
03-03-2012, 05:44  
Boat: Mose & Hoye Pty Ltd Ampopette class 39'10"
of Australia short handed?

It is an Alan Payne design.



On the 'net, I found out that on 9 Nov 1960, the largest plywood yacht ever built in Australia was launched in Sydney, built by E J Goldsteen and designed by Alan Payne. It was called Ampopetta and was 40 ' with 4' 9" draft and beam over 10'. Apparently it was built to race the Sydney to Hobart and did two of them.


The only other mention I can find is that a Mac Shannon of Sydney had an Ampopetta called Chione designed by Alan Payne. That is not much info.

So, what do you think this boat would be like to sail?
16-07-2015, 20:47  
still?.
11-09-2020, 08:30  
Boat: Mose & Hoye Pty Ltd Ampopette class 39'10"
 
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Alan Payne steel sloop: One Man's Boat

Lovely steel sloop for the discerning cruiser.

The famous Sydney yacht designer Alan Payne was best known for designing Australia's first America's Cup challenger Gretel for media tycoon Sir Frank Packer back in the 1960s.

But Payne, the foremost Australian naval architect of his day, made his living designing far more modest, but equally good-looking, yachts for men and women who simply wanted to be able to sail Australia's coastline in style and comfort.

A perfect example of Payne's outstanding design can be found in the 40-foot steel sloop Aeolian which currently graces the waters of the Swan River in Perth.

Aeolian is one of Payne's famous Koonya designs but slightly modified from her sisters. She was built in Sydney by professional boat builder Peter Bracken in 1985 after Payne had re-drawn the original Koonya design to make almost everything, including the hull and the deckhouse, a little larger.

Massively built of steel, Aeolian is designed to survive the ages. Her lower hull is 5.0mm thick plates, above the water line she is 4.0mm plate and the deck is 3.0mm steel. The finish is so good that most observers incorrectly guess that the multi-chined hull is made of timber.

Some years ago, Rob White from the Fremantle Yacht Club purchased the yacht in Sydney and had the famed Perth-based solo circumnavigator Jon Sanders sail her around to the west coast.

Perth optician Larraine Richardson and her partner bought the yacht six years ago and have lavished time and attention on the boat as well as racing and cruising her extensively.

But Larraine’s partner died last year and as Larraine stands just 5ft 2ins tall she finds the yacht a bit of a handful and has reluctantly put it on the market.

Among the recent improvements are a new mainsail with lazy jacks and a bag stacker, a new furling headsail and twin running jibs. The 30hp Yanmar diesel has only 100 hours on the clock and drives a three-bladed stainless-steel feathering propeller.

As is customary in Perth, Aeolian is fitted with a tabernacle for the mast and lowering gear and a mast catcher at the stern -- all necessary to allow yachts to pass under the bridges across the Swan between Perth and the ocean at Fremantle.

The hull was recently taken back to the original barrier coat and then re-coated in various proprietary sealants before being finished with two coats of paint above the waterline and three coats of anti-foul below.

The teak interior was all re-done in 2008 and a full hull survey completed in 2010.

Accommodation runs from a double V-berth in the bow to a convertible double saloon and a two sea berths, one in the saloon and the other a quarter berth.

The galley is fitted with a two burner-LPG stove and electric refrigeration. In keeping with her generation of yachts, the shower is in the cockpit while a manual toilet is below.

Ground tackle includes a large CQR anchor with 15 metres of chain before the rope rode and a Simpson Lawrance windlass.

In the cockpit there are four primary winches as well as a mast halyard winch.

Larraine told BoatPoint Aeolian was is "perfect" condition and would be ideal for someone who wanted to cruise comfortably up and down the West Australian coast.

"It is with great regret that I’ve put her on the market but she is too much for me to handle by myself," she said, "She is a wonderfully comfortable sea boat and she is so pretty that wherever you go people come up to ask about her."

DETAILS: Make: Alan Payne Koonya sloop, built of steel in 1985. Builder: Peter Bracken. Sydney. Name: Aeolian. Dimensions: Length 40ft (11.89m); beam 12ft; draft 5.5 ft. Keel/ballast: Lead, three tonnes. Engine: 30hp Yanmar diesel. Price: $90,000. BoatPoint reference: SSE-AD-986072

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Alan Newbury Payne (1921–1995)

by Carlin de Montfort

This article was published:

  • in the Australian Dictionary of Biography, Volume 19 , 2021
  • online in 2019

Alan Payne, 1961

Alan Payne , 1961

National Archives of Australia, A1200:L39103

Alan Newbury Payne (1921–1995), naval architect, was born on 11 December 1921 at Brockley, London, elder son of Sidney Arthur Payne, master mariner, and his wife Gladys Newbury, née Rowing. The family moved to Australia in 1929, first living in Brisbane, where Sidney worked ashore, and later moving to Rose Bay, Sydney. Alan attended Sydney Grammar School, passing the Leaving certificate examination in 1938. He then held a cadetship in the drawing office at the Cockatoo Island dockyard while studying naval architecture at Sydney Technical College; he gained his diploma in 1945.

At school Payne had shared a love of sailing with his brother Bill and lifelong friend Bryce Mortlock. The three boys began designing boats, including the Payne Mortlock sailing canoe. Described as a ‘legendary craft’ (Mortlock 2004, 42) among sailors, the 19-foot (5.8 m) boat was known for its canoe-shaped hull and sailing speed, and could sometimes outpace the famous 18-foot (5.5 m) skiffs of Sydney Harbour and Brisbane.

After completing his cadetship, Payne established a practice as a naval architect, advertising his services in the design of wood or steel vessels under power or sail. His sailing craft gained him a reputation among Sydney’s yachting community. A local yachtsman, Ernest Merrington, gave him his first commission, Thurloo , a 39-foot (11.9 m) steel yacht suitable for both offshore racing and cruising. Payne competed in the first Sydney to Hobart yacht race in 1945 aboard Horizon . The event would showcase his later designs. Nocturne , a timber vessel planned as a harbour racer, won line honours in 1952 in light conditions. Solo , a steel cruising yacht built and owned by Vic Meyer, was also a victorious ocean racer, winning on handicap in 1956 and 1962 and taking line honours in 1958 and 1959. Payne’s wooden Tasman Seabird class was particularly successful, with Cherana winning the event on handicap in 1959 and Kaleena finishing second on handicap the following year.

When Sir Frank Packer and the Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron—of which Payne was a member—challenged for the 1962 America’s Cup, Payne was commissioned to design the Australian challenger,  Gretel . He studied both the complicated design rules of the competition’s 12-metre class, and the lines of the American vessel Vim , which was chartered and brought to Sydney Harbour. Twice visiting the United States of America, on one trip he was allowed to test scale models in the towing tank at the Stevens Institute of Technology at Hoboken, New Jersey. He designed the hull, rigging, and sail plans, and ‘broke new ground’ (d’Apulget 1980, 104) with some of Gretel ’s innovative fittings. Built by Lars Halvorsen Sons Pty Ltd, Sydney, it was launched in February 1962.

The New York Yacht Club successfully defended the Australian challenge in September, but the moment when Gretel surged past the American defender, Weatherly , to take the second race was a defining moment in Australian yachting, opening the possibility of winning the America’s Cup. Payne worked on the design of Gretel II for another unsuccessful Australian challenge for the trophy in 1970. His Advance proved uncompetitive in the series to determine a challenger in 1983.

At the registrar general’s office, Sydney, on 4 March 1965 Payne had married Betty Lucille Forsyth, née Jones; they later divorced. On 12 May 1973 he married Gwendolene Avice (Wendy) Hay, an English-born teacher, in a Presbyterian service at Mosman. In a diverse career, he had worked as an engineer at the Bond’s Industries Ltd clothing factory and as chief designer for De Havilland Marine in the 1960s, and had collaborated with a number of naval architects and boat designers. During the 1980s, in partnership with Keith Lawson, he developed the design for the First Fleet class catamaran ferries for service on Sydney Harbour. He also engineered the hydraulic hoist used to raise and lower the flag on new Parliament House, Canberra. In 1993 he was appointed AM.

Payne is remembered for his innovations in yacht design, and for his strong seaworthy cruising craft. The America’s Cup challengers Gretel and Gretel II were considered by some to be superior to the American defenders, and his cruising yachts have completed circumnavigations of the world and sailed into Antarctic waters. Gretel II ’s skipper in 1970, Sir James Hardy, later said that ‘the word magic could be applied to Alan’ (Mundle 1995, 18). Modest and quietly spoken, he had ‘great determination, sincerity, and spirit’ (Davis 1967, 149). He died on 20 June 1995 at his Mosman home, survived by his wife and twin daughters; he was cremated. In 2005 he was inducted into the America’s Cup Hall of Fame. His daughter Rosetta also became a naval architect.

Select Bibliography

  • Australian National Maritime Museum in association with Sydney Heritage Fleet. ‘Australian Register of Historic Vessels: Alan Payne.’ Accessed 24 February 2017. http://arhv.anmm.gov.au/people/11147
  • Baverstock, W. The America’s Cup: Challenge from Down Under . Sydney: The K. G. Murray Publishing Company, 1967
  • d’Alpuget, Lou. Yachting in Australia: Yesterday Today Tomorrow . Research assistant Tony Mooney. Richmond, Vic.: Hutchinson Group (Australia), 1980
  • Davis, Murray. Australian Ocean Racing . Sydney: Angus & Robertson, 1967
  • Mortlock, Richard. ‘Intellect Behind the Aesthetic.’ Sydney Morning Herald , 7 August 2004, 42
  • Mundle, Rob. ‘Design Genius Set Course for Cup Triumph.’ Australian , 23 June 1995, 18
  • Stephensen, P. R. Sydney Sails: The Story of the Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron’s First 100 Years (1862–1962) . Sydney: Angus & Robertson, 1962

Additional Resources and Scholarship

  • attends dinner before America's Cup challenge , Australian Women's Weekly, 26 September 1962, p 15
  • to design yacht for America's Cup 1970 , Canberra Times, 19 October 1967, p 34
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Related Entries in NCB Sites

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Citation details

Carlin de Montfort, 'Payne, Alan Newbury (1921–1995)', Australian Dictionary of Biography, National Centre of Biography, Australian National University, https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/payne-alan-newbury-21620/text31833, published online 2019, accessed online 22 December 2024.

This article was published in hardcopy in Australian Dictionary of Biography , Volume 19, (ANU Press), 2021

View the front pages for Volume 19

© Copyright Australian Dictionary of Biography, 2006-2024

Life Summary [details]

11 December , 1921 London , Middlesex , England

20 June , 1995 (aged 73) Mosman, Sydney , New South Wales , Australia

Cause of Death

cancer (leukemia)

Cultural Heritage

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Includes subject's nationality; their parents' nationality; the countries in which they spent a significant part of their childhood, and their self-identity.

  • Sydney Grammar School
  • Sydney Technical College

Occupation or Descriptor

  • naval architect
  • Member of the Order of Australia
  • America's Cup Hall of Fame
  • Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron
  • Cockatoo Island dockyard

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Alan Payne was a yacht designer who was born in Great Britain but spent his career in Australia. He is probably best known as the designer of the 12 meter ‘Gretel II’, that very nearly took away the America’s cup in 1970. In 1993, he was honored as a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for his contribution to Australian yachting.

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COMMENTS

  1. Alan Payne (naval architect) - Wikipedia

    Alan Newbury Payne AM (11 December 1921, London – 20 June 1995, Sydney) was a naval architect [1] born in England but who worked in Australia. His yacht designs were readily built by both professionals and amateurs, [2] and remain well represented in the ocean-going and coastal yacht fleet. [3] [4] [5]

  2. Alan Payne - SailboatData.com

    Alan Payne was a yacht designer who was born in Great Britain but spent his career in Australia. He is probably best known as the designer of the 12 meter ‘Gretel II’, that very nearly took away the America’s cup in 1970. In 1993, he was honored as a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for his contribution to Australian yachting.

  3. Alan Payne – People & Vessel Types – arhv.sea.museum

    Alan Payne was very highly respected by his peers in Australia and internationally. In 1993, Alan's contribution to Australian yachting was recognized with the award of an Order of Australia medal. Alan Payne died on June 20 1995 aged 73. Significant designs His first designs were done often in collaboration with Bryce Mortlock, and his brother ...

  4. Alan Payne - Classic Yacht Info

    Payne was born in London, England in 1921, but moved as part of his family to Australia in 1925. His father, Sidney, was a ship’s master, but went to shore based activities and then emigrated with the family to Brisbane, Queensland to work for Dalgety’s on the waterfront. The family moved to Sydney where Payne attended Sydney Grammar School and sailed small craft with his brother Bill and ...

  5. Category:Sailboat type designs by Alan Payne - Wikipedia

    Main page; Contents; Current events; Random article; About Wikipedia; Contact us

  6. Alan Payne Design: Your Opinions ? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

    Second, Alan Payne designs are eminently seaworthy but wet, cramped and hobbled by the rule of the day (long overhangs to work around the RORC rule). I cruised thousands of miles around Australia in a 34' Robert Clark design modified by AP, which was a great sailing boat, but with only 8'6" beam had less room than the heads on my current yacht.

  7. Hughes-Columbia 27 - Wikipedia

    The Hughes-Columbia 27 is a Canadian sailboat that was designed by Alan Payne as a cruiser and first built in 1978. [1] [2] [3] The Hughes-Columbia 27 is a development of the 1976, Payne-designed Columbia 8.3. [1] [2]

  8. Alan Payne steel sloop: One Man's Boat - boatsales.com.au

    Feb 9, 2013 · A perfect example of Payne's outstanding design can be found in the 40-foot steel sloop Aeolian which currently graces the waters of the Swan River in Perth. Aeolian is one of Payne's famous Koonya designs but slightly modified from her sisters. She was built in Sydney by professional boat builder Peter Bracken in 1985 after Payne had re-drawn ...

  9. Alan Newbury Payne - Australian Dictionary of Biography

    When Sir Frank Packer and the Royal Sydney Yacht Squadron—of which Payne was a member—challenged for the 1962 America’s Cup, Payne was commissioned to design the Australian challenger, Gretel. He studied both the complicated design rules of the competition’s 12-metre class, and the lines of the American vessel Vim , which was chartered ...

  10. Alan Payne — Designer — Sailboat Guide

    Alan Payne was a yacht designer who was born in Great Britain but spent his career in Australia. He is probably best known as the designer of the 12 meter ‘Gretel II’, that very nearly took away the America’s cup in 1970. In 1993, he was honored as a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for his contribution to Australian yachting.