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Demystifying yacht classification A, B, C, D

N.B. For your information, a more recent article was published on 24 Oct 2022 on the same subject, click here for direct access.

Demystifying yacht classification :  Class A, B, C and D

Since 1998, CE certification is required for all recreational boats entering or being sold in Europe obliging boat manufacturers to respect certain building and security standards.  Therefore, yachts ( boats ) are classified into four categories depending on their aptitude to confront navigational conditions taking into account both force of the wind and height of the waves.  The categories are not to limit the area and distance of navigation (that is defined by security equipement onboard) but  to  sensitize the owner and/or captain of the boats capacities to navigate in complete security.

Let us start with the Beaufort Scale.   A scale for classifying the force of the wind ranging from 0 (calm) to 12 (hurricane).   It was devised by an admiral in the British Navy, Francis Beaufort, to uniform the description of the effect of different winds at sea.

There is a direct link between the Beaufort scale and boat classification.   For discussion purposes, we will use only the 6, 7 and 8 forces.

A Class A yacht ( boat ) is a vessel that is built to navigate the open ocean and surpass a force 8 on the Beaufort scale and surpass waves higher that 4 meters.   These yachts are constructed to be self sufficient in hostile seas.

A Class B yacht ( boat ) is a vessel built to navigate on the offshore waters (200 miles and less) and can substain UP TO force 8 and waves UP TO 4 meters.

A Class C boat is a vessel built to navigate inshore such as lakes, rivers, bays and close to the shore and can sustain UP TO force 6 and waves UP TO 2 meters.

A Class D boat is built for protected or sheltered waters such as canals, rivers, small lakes and sustain a force 4 and waves UP TO .3 meters (less that 1 ft).

With this said, you can understand that the Class A yacht ( boat ) respects a rigorous building code more so than a Class B and so forth.    But regardless of the class, it is strongly discouraged to navigate in a force 7 for the reasons of safety and comfort as « pleasure » should always be on the agenda.  Always consult the weather forecast prior to leaving any port and check hourly the weather situation.

Classification is very important and should be on your question list before purchasing any boat or yacht.

Classification rules are developed to assess the structural strength and integrity of the essential parts of the hull, the reliability and function of the propulsion, steering systems, power generation and all the other features installed on board which contribute to guarantee the main essential services of yacht.

Also for a class A, the portholes will be more resistant against a sustained wave, the drains to evacuate the water more abundant and of good size, the joints of the hull more hermetic, in short everything is in place to prevent water from s’ infiltrate on board.

By way of information, let us quote for example all the Ferretti yachts (60 to 96 feet), Pershing (60 to 115), the Riva (44 to 122) are all of class A just like the Magellano range at Azimut including also the 66 Flybridge.

Ferretti yachts (500, 550, 670 fly and over), Pershing (7X and over), Azimut Yachts (62, 64, 66, 68 Fly and over, the Sport Series 7X and over, all Magellano) are Class A.  There are also other classifications such as RINA and American Bureau of Shipping, Bureau Veritas, Det Norske Veritas, Germanischer Lloyd, Lloyd Register, that are more precise regulations and we will cover this later in another article.

Below is the graph of the Beaufort Scale along with photos.

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WELCOME TO THE

NATIONAL C SCOW SAILING ASSOCIATION

The c scow is a fast, tactical, and dynamic boat, race against some of the best sailors in the county, join the community of sailors nation wide, - grow the fleet - free registration f o r youths see youth tab.

The National C Scow Sailing Association (NCSSA) is the national organization for the C Scow supported by sailors across the country. Each year the NCSSA sponsors a championship regatta and has been doing so since 1981. The NCSSA also publishes national rankings. Any sailor can be ranked by sailing a minimum of three r egattas. There are over 19  regattas each year. Get ranked and compare your rankings against some of the best sailors in the country!

The C Scow is a dynamic boat that provides for fast, tactical, and fun racing. The C Scow origins date back to 1906 in the midwest. There are now over 70 inland lakes across the United States with fleets.  

The mission of the NCSSA is to promote and grow the C Scow fleet. Come join us and start sailing a C Scow!

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• Sailboat Guide

C Class Catamaran

C Class Catamaran is a 25 ′ 0 ″ / 7.6 m catamaran sailboat starting in 1960.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

C CLASS CATAMARAN rule began with the creation of the International Catamaran Challenge Cup, first sponsored, in 1960, by the Sea Cliff Yacht Club, located in Long Island, NY USA. The event, loosely called the Little Americas Cup, continues to this day, although only intermittantly in recent years. Among development classes, it is recognized as one with the fewest restrictions. Boats that are built to the C Class rule are among the most advanced and fastest sailboats in the world for closed course racing. Restrictions are as follows: A crew of 2. Maximum LOA is 25’. Maximum Beam is 14’. Maximum Sail Area is 300 sq feet. (For the past 20+ years, the sails have been multi element solid wings with varying methods of control) There is no restriction on weight or design of foils. The photo is of the US boat ‘Cogito’. Photo by Elizabeth B. Wrightson.

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Welcome to the C&C 99 Class Association

The C&C 99 is an American sailboat that was designed by Tim Jackett and entered production in 2002.

C&C 99 Designer

“ I was dubious about the 99’s ability to handle our conditions (Australia) so had a re-engineered forestay tang and a custom designed anchor roller to reinforce the the tang. The sails have been cut for offshore conditions, light but strong and can be reduced at a moments notice. I use my boat whenever I get the opportunity all year round and can stay aboard for up to a week before I need to refill water tanks. I have a 100 litre bladder behind the sullage tank. I manage to be able to sail with a 5.2M paddle ski inside the rails without sheets getting caught.

The boat is a great all rounder and a lot more fun than the S&S’s. I have certainly given it a pounding and it has stood up well so far. Without any crew means I have to reduce sail earlier in the piece but maintains a good speed in all conditions. I plan to go a little further when the opportunity arises. “

Class Press

Contributing Photographers

Trevor Lowthers  ( https://tlow.smugmug.com )

Tim Wilkes Photography ( http://www.timwilkes.com )

Thank you to our class sponsor: Cajun Ropes

10% off orders for all c&c 99 owners + additional 5% off when you like cajun ropes on facebook.

• Melges A Scow
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MELGES SAILBOATS

FUN. MODERN. EASY TO SAIL.

Designed by Botin Partners Naval Architecture and built by Premier Composite Technologies, the Melges 40 is a weapon for windward/leeward, inshore and coastal racing. Fresh off the design line, the Melges 40 strengthens a unique sailing/racing experience.

The Melges 32 ®  is one-design racing at its best. Since 2005, it has successfully delivered bigger, better sailing that is fun and competitive. Complementing its sporty attitude, it possesses one of the most fun regatta schedules that includes many prestigious venues supported by an organized and well-established class association.

The reputation of the Melges 24 ®  precedes itself. Best known for its very competitive disposition and easy-to-sail personality, this modern sportboat maintains its status as a leader in high-performance, one design yachting. With more than 850 boats sold, it continues a humbling tradition of America's Cup, Olympic Medallists, Volvo Ocean Race recruitment. Looking to improve on tactics and boat handling skills? The Melges 24 builds better sailors.

Simple, fun world-class racing at yachting's most celebrated venues. Corinthians and professionals alike. Year after year, that's what the Melges 20 Experience is all about. The Melges 20 fulfills the need for a more compact, yet spacious, fast, well-built sportboat. With its introduction, Melges Performance Sailboats delivered the next generation of sailboat racing and competition. An exclusive Reichel/Pugh keelboat design, it is advanced in every respect. Made with high-quality materials and easy to rig, the Melges 20 enjoys a well-established worldwide fleet and fan base.

Designed by Reichel/Pugh and built by Melges, the Melges 15 prioritizes stability, comfort, ease of use, and performance. The Melges 15’s stable hull shape and ergonomic cockpit make it a suitable layout for adult racing and educational sailing. Easy conversion from a club configuration (non-spinnaker) to a one-design setup, provides more versatility to club programs and options for individual owners. With the main design goals focused on stability and performance in a variety of conditions, the boat features a narrow overall beam and a flat cross-section shape for stability, righting moment, and ease of planing.

Designed by Reichel/Pugh, the Melges 14 is a modern singlehanded one-design with the ability to sail with two. With its large and open transom, there’s never a need to bail. The carbon mast and boom complement its flexible sail plan with three different size rigs. With boats in North America, Europe, Asia, Australia, and Africa, the Melges 14 is a one-design fleet for the masses. Sailors can order a custom Melges 14 dolly, easily car top it or tow it behind any vehicle. It’s a perfect beach boat, family sailboat or a one-design racing platform. It is speed, quality, durability, comfort and fun wrapped into one dynamic sailing package.

MELGES A SCOW

With six to seven crew, the A Scow is the fastest and largest of the Melges Scow family. Nothing compares to its century of heritage, delivering a combination of raw power, speed and performance unmatched in one-design sailing. A true classic, the A Scow is monumental to watch, not to mention powerful to race.

MELGES E SCOW

The elegant and super sleek Melges E Scow™ delivers an electrifying ride. The ever-growing fleet of Melges E Scows boasts both impressive world-class competition and accessible family fun for everyone. For more than 80 years, the E Scow has founded the tradition of fun and fast sailboat racing all over North America, from lakes and bays to protected ocean harbors. More than 50+ boats can be seen on the starting line.

An alternative, double-handed scow, the Melges 17 has a reputation for being fast and fun in light or heavy air. The rivalry pairings range from husband and wives to teamed siblings, making the Melges 17 the ultimate family racer!

MELGES C SCOW

The C Scow was the first class of scow built by Harry C. Melges, Sr. in 1945; it quickly became an all-time speed favorite. Inspired by more than 100 years of competitive racing, this cat-rigged, maneuverable sailboat is great fun and a total pleasure to sail. A modern, versatile and easy-to-sail boat, it accommodates 2-3 crew and is super-charged with a large, powerful mainsail. Built with integrity, the Melges C Scow™ is fast and calibrated superlatively for speed. It is one of the most friendly and popular classes in the Melges Scow family, producing as many as 80+ boats on the starting line.

An original design by the Melges family, the Melges MC is cat-rigged boat with one of the largest one-design fleets in all of North America. It is unique in the fact that you can sail single-handed or double-handed – Sailing solo is easy, taking a crew is fun! There are more than 100 fleets nationwide with more than 2,700 MCs actively racing each year.

MELGES X BOAT

The Melges X Boat® makes learning to sail fun, easy and addictive. For youth sailors, it is a rewarding experience that ultimately fosters a deep passion for the sport. Boasting a regular showing of over 100 boats at the X Inland Championship, it is one of the most active youth sailing fleets in North America. The Melges X Boat Experience not just about the racing. It’s about the community – Making lifelong friends through sailing, volleyball, and just plain fun. The Melges X Boat is the perfect, uncomplicated trainer designed specifically to be safe for novice sailors yet competitive & fun for aspiring junior racers. Fast and super smooth, it truly enables concise development and instruction of basic boat handling skills, maneuvers and racing tactics.

O’PEN SKIFF

Designed specifically for juniors, the little dinghy has blown a big breath of fresh air through our sailing world, close to the new-generation skiff concept, very fast and very simple. 100% open, self-bailing, rapid and responsive, with an up-to-date versatile rig, the O'pen Skiff offers kids a machine that delivers maximum fun while helping them learn the skills and reflexes to enjoy racing on current, high-performance equipment. Hundreds of sailing clubs around the world have opted for the O'pen Skiff, for a new, fun way of teaching sailing to appeal to youngsters attracted to new sail sports.

SKEETA & NIKKI

The Skeeta and Nikki are singlehanded foiling designs built by Jim and David French in Melbourne, AUS. The scow’s stability and ease are only further enhanced by the performance and durability of the wings and aluminum foils. Melges Performance Sailboats is the exclusive dealer for the Skeeta and the Nikki in North America.

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• 1 Design, Construction, and Naming Notes
• 2 Octopus/C-1 (Submarine No. 9)
• 3 Stingray/C-2 (Submarine No. 13)
• 4 Tarpon/C-3 (Submarine No. 14)
• 5 Bonita/C-4 (Submarine No. 15)
• 6 Snapper/C-5 (Submarine No. 16)
• 7 General C-class photos

Design, Construction, and Naming Notes

In an interesting historical footnote... the USN C-class submarines never fired a shot in anger. However, Electric Boat did sell two of their EB-17 design boats to Austria in 1906. These boats were virtual duplicates of the C-class. Famous torpedo inventor Robert Whitehead and his Whitehead & Co. obtained a license from EB to build the boats in Fiume. The boats were partially assembled in the U.S. (presumably at the Fore River Shipbuilding Company), then shipped in broken down form to Fiume where the Whitehead company finished the assembly and fitting out. They were commissioned into the Austro-Hungarian Navy in 1910 as SM U-5 and U-6. Both boats saw combat in WWI, with U-5 in particular sinking or capturing four ships, including the French cruiser Leon Gambetta. Most of the U-5's successes came while she was under the command of none other than Linienschiffsleutnant Georg Ludwig Ritter von Trapp, the patriarch of the Von Trapp Family Singers of The Sound of Music fame. Von Trapp's first wife, the mother of many of his children, was Agathe Whitehead, the granddaughter of Robert Whitehead, whose company built the U-5. Agathe also had the honor of christening the U-5 on the day of her launching.

Octopus/C-1 (Submarine No. 9)

See more C-1 photos

Stingray/C-2 (Submarine No. 13)

See more C-2 photos

Tarpon/C-3 (Submarine No. 14)

See More C-3 photos

Bonita/C-4 (Submarine No. 15)

The C-class submarines had a reported top speed of 11 knots on the surface and nine knots submerged. They were powered by twin gasoline engines on the surface.

See More C-4 photos

Snapper/C-5 (Submarine No. 16)

See More C-5 photos

General C-class photos

The Submarines are left to right the C-4, C-5, C-2, C-3 and C-1. The Sub Div designators are on their conning towers as a "1" over another number, (this indicating their physical position in a division at-sea steaming formation). The C-1 is 1 over 3; the C-3 is 1 over 5; the C-2 is 1 over 1 (flagship); C-5 is 1 over 4, and the C-4 is 1 over 2.

Seen on the conning tower of the C-5 (second from left) in the white broad brimmed hat is probably the civilian pilot, whose responsibility it was to guide the submarines through the canal. The is still done to this day.

See more General C-class photos.

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Cal 2-46: A Venerable Lapworth Design Brought Up to Date

Rhumb Lines: Show Highlights from Annapolis

Open Transom Pros and Cons

Leaping Into Lithium

The Importance of Sea State in Weather Planning

Do-it-yourself Electrical System Survey and Inspection

Install a Standalone Sounder Without Drilling

When Should We Retire Dyneema Stays and Running Rigging?

Rethinking MOB Prevention

Top-notch Wind Indicators

The Everlasting Multihull Trampoline

How Dangerous is Your Shore Power?

DIY survey of boat solar and wind turbine systems

What’s Involved in Setting Up a Lithium Battery System?

The Scraper-only Approach to Bottom Paint Removal

Can You Recoat Dyneema?

Gonytia Hot Knife Proves its Mettle

Where Winches Dare to Go

The Day Sailor’s First-Aid Kit

Choosing and Securing Seat Cushions

Cockpit Drains on Race Boats

Rhumb Lines: Livin’ the Wharf Rat Life

Re-sealing the Seams on Waterproof Fabrics

Safer Sailing: Add Leg Loops to Your Harness

Waxing and Polishing Your Boat

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• Sailboat Reviews

The Evolution of the C&C 27 Cruiser-Racer

C&C Yachts produced four versions-and nearly 1,000 hulls-of its popular C&C 27 boat. Called the C&C 27 Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, and Mark IV, these boats differed in various ways, but the hulls were similar. A fifth design, the C&C 27 Mark V, was a totally different design. Heres a look at the various editions of the C&C 27, and how they differed from one another.

Mark I: Production ran from 1970 to 1972; hull numbers 1 through 167. Shorter hull and shortest rigs, with single upper and single lower shrouds. Mainsail traveller mounted aft in cockpit. Standard equipped with tiller steering and Atomic 4 gas engine.

Mark II: Production ran from 1972 to 1974; hull numbers 168 through 451. Same hull and sail area as the Mark I. High-aspect rig was two feet taller than Mark I. Rigged with one upper and two lower shrouds. Same aft traveller, Atomic 4 engine, and tiller steering as Mark I.

Mark III: Production ran from 1974 to 1981; hull numbers 452 through 914. Hull similar to previous editions but six inches in length were added to cockpit/stern area. Traveller was moved forward to bridgedeck mount, and wheel steering became an option in 1975; diesel power became option in 1978 (Yanmar). Draft and sail area increased; ballast decreased; displacement remained same as previous marks. Rudder redesigned with higher aspect shape. Small interior changes made but basic layout the same as marks I and II.

Mark IV: Production ran from 1981 to 1982; hull numbers 915 through 979. Most changes in Mark IV were cosmetic; teak interior replaced with off-white melamine, trimmed with teak and dark-anodized aluminum. Forestay moved aft about seven inched to make way for a bow roller. Auxiliary power option upgraded to two-cylindar Yanmar.

Mark V: Production ran from 1984 to 1986; hull numbers 1 to 169 (Niagara-On-The-Lake plant) and 500 to 610 (Rhode Island plant). The Mark V is a completely different boat than the other 27s; it is not considered part of the evolution of those previous designs. Geared more toward racing sailors, the Mark V was designed to meet the Midget Ocean Racing Club (MORC) rule.

* Compiled with data from the C&C 27 owners association, www.cc27association.com

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Unlimited C Class Sailboat Racing Rule (UCCSRR?)

Discussion in ' Sailboats ' started by Doug Lord , Jan 25, 2010 .

Doug Lord Flight Ready

Open(instead of "Unlimited") C Class Sailboat Racing Rule ? This is a basic rule for racing sailboats 25' long with 300 sq' of sail area and a maximum beam of 34'. The rule would not limit participants to any type of sailboat-multihulls and monohulls could compete. Foils would be legal as would be anything not specifically restricted below. The rule idea is inspired by a discussion in the Moth on Foils thread and by the International C Class Catamaran Rule. My interest is that I'm convinced that a C Class catamaran is no longer the fastest type of sailboat POSSIBLE 25' long. The beam restriction is high so as not to limit the type of boat that might compete and is based on the L/B ratio of Hydroptere. My gut feeling is that the winning boat to this Rule will be considerably narrower. The course sailing requirement is to make sure that this Unlimited C Class Rule does not evolve to a straight line, speed racing, one tack fits all, boat type. How about: --LOA 25' --Beam 34'(max) or 1.36 times length --Weight unrestricted --SA 300 sq.ft. --crew 2 --must be raced on a course( specific-like windward leeward or triangle windward leeward) --minimum wind speed for a regatta-5 knots --maximum wind speed-25 knots Not limited to foilers or multihulls-no other restrictions ========================== Comments and individual ideas of what might be fast could lead to a fun and interesting discussion...  

Gary Baigent Senior Member

Thought C Class was 25 feet x 14, not 24, long, Doug (or is the rudder not counted, that's a crappy joke by the way). An open C Class would reinvigorate C Class with many innovative designs and become a hotbed of ideas - and produce maybe some cheaper, if not a lot faster alternatives. But do they want that?  

Unlimited C Class Gary Baigent said: ↑ Thought C Class was 25 feet x 14, not 24, long, Doug (or is the rudder not counted, that's a crappy joke by the way). An open C Class would reinvigorate C Class with many innovative designs and become a hotbed of ideas - and produce maybe some cheaper, if not a lot faster alternatives. But do they want that ? Click to expand...

Attached Files:

Mach ii from their site.jpg, rocker transom extensions.jpg.

C Class Cat vs C Class Monofoiler/ Old Rule This is my idea of a boat that could be very fast under the Unlimited Class Rule and under the C Class Cat rule. Numbers done over a year ago-the new rules boat could but not necessarily would revise the rig on the monofoiler to potentially the same as a C Class cat with a commensurate increase in beam(and weight) under the Unlimited Class rule: -------------- C Class Cat ----- A . I found numbers for Invictus: 170kg(374lb) all up ;75kg(165lb) wing, 95kg(210lb) hull,cross beams, foils. For the purposes of this comparison I reduced Invictus numbers to: 163.63kg(360lb) * all up,72.18kg(158.8 lb.) wing,91.44kg(201lb)hull,cross,foils. Note: on both boats crew CG figured at 1m(3.28') from side of boat(or racks): Crew weight: 320lb(145.45kg) B. RIGHTING MOMENT Measured with boat just flying a hull: -------------------- --1) CB lee hull to boat CG: 6.5'(1.98m)(assume 1'(.3m) hull beam)=RA; 6.5 X 201=1306.5ft. lb/ 1.98 X 91.44=181.1kg/m ------------------- --2) CB lee hull to crew CG:6.5'(1.98m)+7'(2.13m)+3.28'(1m)=RA; 16.78' X 320lb=5369.6ft.lb / 5.11m X 145.45kg=743.3kg/m ------------------- --3) CB lee hull to wing CG: 5.635'(1.71m)=RA; 5.635 X 158.8= 894.83 ft.Lb. /1.72m X 72.18kg=124.2kg/m ======================== --4)C Class Cat Total RM:= 7570ft.lb / 1049 kg/m ============================================== C .----- Total weight: 320+360=680lb /145.45 kg+163.63=309.08kg (UPDATE: 1/26/10-according to Steve Killing Alpha-last Little America's Cup winner weighed 750lb/340.9kg all up with crew. *Hull,foils and rig for Alpha=360lb/163.63kg) D . CE at 19'(5.79m) E. . Bethwaites Ratio: SCP/Total Weight 1)SCP= RM/ CE-CLR a.-SCP=7570/19=398.42 // 1049/5.79=181.17 2)SCP/Total weight=398.42/ 680=58.6%// 181.17/309.08=58.6% 3) SCP/Total/WEIGHT(STEVE)=61.7%/color] 4) SCP/TOTAL WEIGHT(FREDO)=61% F . W/SA=2.26 W/SA(Steve)= 2.53 W/SA(FREDO)=2.46 Note: SA/ sq.ft. wetted surface flying a hull,one board,one rudder = 8.42/1 ROCKER ---Note: SA/sq.ft. wetted surface on foils(including immersed portions of daggerboard and rudder)= 23.18/1 W/SA(ROCKER)= 2.55 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ C Class Monofoiler Note: crew =320lb(145.45kg) A . --- Righting Moment 1) Veal Heel adds 1.5'(.457m) to righting arm 2) crew-1.5'(.457m)+7'(2.13m)+3.28'(1m)=RA; 11.78'X 320=3769.6 ft.lb // 3.587m X 145.45=521.73kg/m 3) hull +foils- 120lb X 1.5'=180ft.lb // 54.55kg X .457m=24.93kg/m 4) wing 140lb X 4.5= 630 ft.lb // 63.63kg X 1.37=87.18kg/m 5)C Class Monofoiler Total RM: 4579ft.lb// 633.84kg/m -------------- B . Total weight=320+260=580lb(263.64kg) C . CE 13' (3.96m) D . Bethwaites Ratio-SCP/Total Weight 1)SCP=RM/CE-CLR a. 4579/13=352.2 // 633.84/3.96=160.06 2)SCP/Total Weight: 352.2/580=60.7%// 160.06/263.64=60.7% E .W/SA=1.93 Note: SA/sq.ft. wetted surface on foils(including immersed portions of daggerboard and rudder)= 23.47/1 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ NOTE: if the hull weight goes up 50lb(22.7kg) then the ratio changes to 56.8% To see the potential of a C Class monofoiler you have to look no further than the Moth vs an A Class cat: Moth vs A Class cat----- 1)Moth RM=900ft.lb. . 2)A Class RM=2325ft. lb.; NOW THIS IS FAIRLY IMPORTANT: This might help you to see that the sq.ft.SA to sq.ft. wetted surface is an accurate comparator of potential speed when comparing a foiler(on foils) to a "normal" multihull'. This is sort of like comparing test results from two large models and finding them in agreement with design predictions: Moth: 17.8sq.feet SA per sq.ft. wetted surface ( including submersed portion of daggerboard and rudder when on foils) A Class cat: 7.8 sq.ft.SA per sq.ft wetted surface (flying a hull, one board, one rudder) This is important because ,according to Rohan Veal,Bora Gulari -and others-the Moth is faster than an A Class cat in conditions over 10 knots! S0, it looks pretty good for a C Class Monofoiler vs a C Class Cat especially considering the foiler is lighter and has the same sail area with far less drag(on foils). It is worth noting that the aspect ratio of the A Class cat is substantially higher than that of a Moth.... ------ Oh, the wetted surface for the two boats(C Class Cat & C Class monofoiler) is within 2% when the foiler is off the foils. And a retractable foil system might be possible. Worst case for the foiler would be marginal foiling conditions. In wind over about 5 knots the foiler is flying..... ------ And if all that doesn't make you think-then this should knock your socks off: 1-Top Speed for C-Class Catamaran: 23 knots(26.45mph) source: Steve Killing and Team Alpha 2-Top Speed for the Moth monohull foiler(monofoiler): 30.31 knots(34.86mph) source: Bora Gulari ============== This is no guarantee of anything-just very interesting numbers. =================== Note: this rough comparison was done to the "old" C Class rules with beam limited to 14'. The new Unlimited Rule would allow more beam but it is NOT a given that more beam would make the monofoiler faster. Small "Power Foils" might make more sense in stronger winds(for a very small-2% approx. weight gain)....  

bistros Previous Member

Oranges versus Apples again Doug: I have no problem with new ideas. I like new ideas to be labeled as such, though. By calling your new idea a "C Class", you are attempting to piggyback your idea onto an existing class, with a long and valued history. I seem to remember Steve Clark reminding you in the past that once you go outside the box, it isn't a C Class anymore. Your response was that the rules should change to fit your idea. For the love of God, please don't attempt to bring legitimacy and credibility to a new idea by attempting to hijack the legitimacy and credibility of a design rule that has already stood the test of time. If your idea has value (and I think it may) let it earn it's own place in the world without devaluing something else. People like Steve Clark and Fred Eaton are very happily innovating and advancing the existing C Class while respecting the rules. They've invested more into their designs than almost anyone here has in a comparable single class design. Fredo's last C Class venture was around $1,000,000 invested for Alpha and Rocker (also acquiring Patient Lady as a control). Steve's new design is just now reaching assembly and major component refinement. Be proud of your idea and come up with your own name, and your own marketing campaign. -- Bill  

Unlimited C Class I think that the Unlimited C Class defines this concept succinctly and doesn't-in any way-interfere with the C Class Catamaran rule. My original idea proposed to Steve was to change the C Class Catamaran rule-that is NOT the intention with the Unlimited C Class rule. A,B, C and D classes have long been specified by sail area. World Speed Sailing Records can be established in the following classes ( that are not specified as multihulls or monohulls! ) I think Unlimited C Class is fine....Go to the site below and look at all the C Class winners-most of which are foilers. 10 sq m (up to and including 10 sq m) A Class (from 10 sq m up to and including 150 sq ft (13.93 sq m)) B Class (from 150 sq ft up to and including 235 sq ft (21.84 sq m)) C Class (from 235 sq ft up to and including 300 sq ft (27.88 sq m)) D Class (over 300 sq ft) ------------ http://www.speedsailing.com/Background_records.htm  

Apples are NOT non-citrus northern oranges Doug Lord said: ↑ I think that the Unlimited C Class defines this concept succinctly and doesn't-in any way-interfere with the C Class Catamaran rule. My original idea proposed to Steve was to change the C Class Catamaran rule-that is NOT the intention with the Unlimited C Class rule. Click to expand...

RHough Retro Dude

Doug Lord said: ↑ This is a basic rule for racing sailboats 25' long with 300 sq' of sail area and a maximum beam of 32'. The rule would not limit participants to any type of sailboat-multihulls and monohulls could compete. Foils would be legal as would be anything not specifically restricted below. The rule idea is inspired by a discussion in the Moth on Foils thread and by the International C Class Catamaran Rule. My interest is that I'm convinced that a C Class catamaran is no longer the fastest type of sailboat POSSIBLE 24' long. The beam restriction is high so as not to limit the type of boat that might compete and is based on the L/B ratio of Hydroptere. My gut feeling is that the winning boat to this Rule will be considerably narrower. The course sailing requirement is to make sure that this Unlimited C Class Rule does not evolve to a straight line, speed racing, one tack fits all, boat type. How about: --LOA 25' --Beam 32'(max) --Weight unrestricted --SA 300 sq.ft. --crew 2 --must be raced on a course( specific-like windward leeward or triangle windward leeward) --minimum wind speed for a regatta-5 knots --maximum wind speed-25 knots Not limited to foilers or multihulls-no other restrictions ========================== Comments and individual ideas of what might be fast could lead to a fun and interesting discussion... Click to expand...

Paul B Previous Member

RHough said: ↑ The rule is too restrictive to have the label "unlimited" R Click to expand...

Paul B said: ↑ The way IYRU set up the C class (and A, B, and D) is as "unlimited" as you could want. Simply maximum 300 sq. ft of sail (including spars) = The Rule Book. There, the "Unlimited" C Class. Funny, it already exists without any help from people with their own agendas of fitting artificial limits to a class so their pre-disposed idea might turn out to be the best solution. In fact no one, especially not the guy who started this (yes, yet another) useless thread, is going to spend the US$MM it would take to dominate the class. As soon as someone does that everyone else goes home (assuming incorrectly there would be anyone else to begin with). Might as well start a thread about how neato it would be to have a flying car, and how you just might get insert starlet's name here to go out with you if you had that flying car. Click to expand...

Open C Class Rule(?) The point of the proposed rule(post #1) is to: 1) maintain the same sail area and length restrictions that are part of the current C Class Catamaran rule-primarily as a cost containment measure but also to facillitate existing C Class cats' participation if they choose to. 2) Eliminate or greatly increase the beam restriction in light of modern multihull design-square or over square designs are common. The fastest sailboat in the world has a beam 1.36 times its length which seems like a good limit. 3) Eliminate the "type" restriction of the C Class catamaran rule so that monohulls, proas ,trimarans could all compete within a basic framework. ========= So instead of "unlimited" how about: "Open C Class Rule"? The rule would also include a requirement for course racing and a minimum and maximum windspeed. The idea is to develop a rule that allows modern multihull and monohull designs to compete together within a slightly limited framework that includes course racing.  

Doug Lord said: ↑ The point of the proposed rule(post #1) is to: 1) maintain the same sail area and length restrictions that are part of the current C Class Catamaran rule-primarily as a cost containment measure but also to facillitate existing C Class cats' participation if they choose to. 2) Eliminate or greatly increase the beam restriction in light of modern multihull design-square or over square designs are common. The fastest sailboat in the world has a beam 1.36 times its length which seems like a good limit. 3) Eliminate the "type" restriction of the C Class catamaran rule so that monohulls, proas ,trimarans could all compete within a basic framework. ========= So instead of "unlimited" how about: "Open C Class Rule"? The rule would also include a requirement for course racing and a minimum and maximum windspeed. The idea is to develop a rule that allows modern multihull and monohull designs to compete together within a slightly limited framework that includes course racing. Click to expand...

RHough said: ↑ Nope, the intent of the rule is to create a class that will allow boats to compete with an established class that banned them for good reason. R Click to expand...

Steve Clark Charged Particle

If I might have a word. The thing I have been sailing all these years is a C Class Catamaran. If one assumes that 300 ft^2= "C Class," there is no reason why there couldn't be any number of "C Classes" There could be C Class Trimarans, Foilers, Monohulls or whatever. These might have their own set of type forming limits depending entirely on what made sense to those involved. I don't perceive a huge groundswell for restricted sail area development classes. If one looks at the current trend in design, it seems that unlimited sail area is a more popular concept. IF a number of these boats existed, it might be interesting to see how they compared. When other stuff exists, we can talk about it. I don't think it makes sense to speculate further. SHC  

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Open C Class Steve, just for the fun of it, what kind of boat do you think could be designed under this "open " rule that might beat a C Class cat? In other words, with all your high performance experience, what direction do you think design would move given virtually unlimited beam(1.36 L) and no "type" restriction? Not really speculation-just design imagineering...  

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Are C&C Sailboats Bluewater?

Last Updated by

Jacob Collier

August 30, 2022

‍ When searching for the best bluewater sailboats, there are many options available. C&C sailboats for example have great value, but are C&C sailboats bluewater?

The size and price are not the only factors to consider when comparing C&C sailboats. There are many characteristics that separate some sailboats, but it would be appealing if C&C sailboats could be used for bluewater due to their class, style, and price point.

C&C sailboats have potential for bluewater sailing, but lack in some areas. The companionways are tight, have little cockpit protection, proper storage for a life raft, and need provisions for improved handling with less people. No boat is perfect, but some C&C boats are capable on bluewater.

C&C sailboats have typically served as a dual-purpose boat, with a few options of trends among consumers over the years. The brand has a few boats that are bluewater worthy under the C&C Landfall category of boats, but a few exceptions can be made if you are up for the challenge.

According to sailboat data, these boats are slightly heavier than the typical racing C&C line of sailboats. This means their Landfall line of sailboats are geared towards serious use, rather than just a cruiser. In addition, you are going to find that you might need to make some compromises in order to find the best C&C sailboat for bluewater.

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‍ Price a Huge Factor

Before checking out the condition of a 1980’s C&C Landfall boat, the price is something to consider. Some have been listed around $20,000, while others are hovering around $90,000.

Depending on the condition of the boat, it could be worth the extra price. If the boat has upgrades to the companionways and a dodger implemented around the cockpit, this could add value. These are simple upgrades you could do yourself to save money, but are convenient when someone else has put the time in for you.

The average price of the Landfall 38 has consistently been around $70,000. This is not a great price for a boat that needs some upgrades for bluewater sailing, as this reflects comparisons to other cruisers. If you can find one that is cheaper with only a handful of upgrades to consider, this could potentially be a great option.

Fortunately, not many of these boats were made and used for serious sailing. You can still find good quality Landfalls for a great price to use for a bluewater sailboat.

Key Characteristics

The C&C Landfall 38 is a great example for the brand creating a bluewater sailboat. The boat is slightly heavier than other boats around the same time, but not so much that it affects the performance negatively.

This particular boat was the mid-size option out of the three models they built, with a 35 and 42 footer. The 38 offered the most success in terms of casual sailing due to its size and comfort amongst a smaller group of people.

These boats were built as a performance cruiser, with some capacity to handle bluewater sailing in moderate conditions depending on your experience. The Landfall 38 is a fast boat that also offers a longer keel and longer deckhouse, so you get the best of both worlds when it comes to sailing fast but with a little extra room of comfort.

These series of boats use a masthead sloop, which allows an advantage with flying a bigger headsail. In upwind, you can gain a lot of speed without having to fully rely on your engine. This is a great bonus since the boat has a smaller fuel tank.

When sailing, the boat typically performs well aerodynamically with good upwind performance. It is possible to be cruised by a couple, assuming you use a good roller-furling headsail system .

If you and someone else can handle the boat efficiently this way, it allows the best room for comfort and navigation. Having three to six people on board also helps with extra hands, but could be a tight fit for days at a time.

Drawbacks to Using C&C Boats for Bluewater

While some positive characteristics are going to set apart one sailboat to another, there are some features that need to be addressed if serious sailing is your goal. Typical C&C boats were manufactured with racing and casual sailing in mind, so bluewater capabilities are limited in that regard to most of their lineup.

Since racing was the brand's bread and butter during that time, it makes sense that they would incorporate a performance cruiser with some minor racing accents. There were only 180 of these boats built since the market at the time did not value them. Finding a C&C Landfall might also prove to be difficult depending on the location, but potentially worth it if you want to spend time on it.

Depending on how far you plan to travel for a bluewater trip, you might want to consider how much fuel you are going to be using. The Landfall 38 holds 30 gallons of diesel, which does not allow much use for multiple days out at sea and limits it to roughty a day.

You would either have to fully utilize the wind and cruise rather slowly to get to your destination. In addition, you would have to consider bringing extra fuel with you, which would take up space and potentially be hazardous for the environment if you cannot safely secure it on board.

Potable Water

In comparison to the fuel tanks, the gray tanks are somewhat overkill. These boats typically hold 103 gallons of water.

Since it was made back in the 1980’s, the difference between fuel and gray tanks is massive. It is possible to handle roughly 45 gallons for a few days of travel, so completely topping off the water tank for a day trip might not be useful.

Tight Companionways and Water

The companionways can appear tight to navigate if you are sailing with several people. Even though this boat is possible to handle with just two, you might want extra people at first until you get the hang of it.

With the bulkhead having a slope forward, you will need to leave the drop board in place when it rains. In addition, the companionways do not have a lip on them, which allows water to enter the cabin under the drop board.

Attractive Boat for Its Time

The design of a C&C Landfall 38 has stood the test of time when it comes to design features. As for a bluewater sailboat, it meets the criteria for getting the job done in comfort.

Great Space

Below the deck offers plenty of storage and space for multiple people. Depending on how an individual will use it, this could be optimized in either direction.

The galley typically has plenty of space to move around, which is great when you plan on cooking each day. Without compromising space or comfort, this makes it easy to spend days at a time on board.

Tough and Reliable

With these boats being equipped with a long keel, some may want to add a skeg. However, the spade rudder is sufficient enough to help protect the prop.

With those two components in mind, it allows the boat to track well and hold up during tough conditions just fine. In combination with the 12 foot beam, it offers a stiff boat that can handle rough conditions or whatever the weather throws at you.

Since the boat only drafts right around five feet, it does leave a little to be desired in comparison to today's cruisers or sailboats that draft another foot or two deeper. This would be up to the individual who is sailing, but some milder conditions on the bluewater would be perfect for this boat.

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Born into a family of sailing enthusiasts, words like “ballast” and “jibing” were often a part of dinner conversations. These days Jacob sails a Hallberg-Rassy 44, having covered almost 6000 NM. While he’s made several voyages, his favorite one is the trip from California to Hawaii as it was his first fully independent voyage.

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