oram catamaran plans

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What is it Going to COST to BUILD a Kit CATAMARAN? – A Comprehensive Guide (MJ Sailing)

The big question on everyone’s mind is … what is it going to COST us to build this new catamaran?

Matt has spent the past few weeks talking to the designers at Schionning and Oram, as well as professional and ameture builders to gather as much information as possible on the costs that go into building a kit catamaran. Things can obviously vary from builder to builder, but taking a simple and basic approach, we’ve narrowed down the numbers on what we estimate it will cost to build an Oram 45R.

To take a look at the full design specs, take a look here: https://www.boboramdesign.com/45r

For a quick look at the numbers, check our website: https://www.mjsailing.com/cos/oram-45r…

For a download of the spreadsheet, click here: https://www.mjsailing.com/wp-content/u…

After discussing previous builds with the many others who’ve come before us, we found out there is one small thing that can skyrocket a budget – and that is making customizations after you’ve started the build. But, if you start with good plans and commit yourself to them, it is very feesable to stick to your original budget.

Sending the above spreadsheet to both designers and builders, and asking if they were realistic figures, they all came back stating that we’ve covered all aspects and should be able to complete the project within the budget we have listed. And that, is music to our ears!!

Since this is a very long video because we have tried to keep it as detailed as possible, here is an outline of subjects covered if you’d like to bounce through to the areas that interest you:

0:00:00 – Intro by Jessica 0:03:50 – Intro by Matt 0:15:32 – Intro To Budget 0:16:30 – Costs relating to Kit 0:21:45 – Total cost of Kit shipped to the US 0:24:23 – Costs relating to Building Supplies 0:32:10 – Total costs of Building Supplies 0:32:53 – Total cost of First Year of Build (getting to paint stage) 0:35:41 – Costs relating to Paint 0:39:05 – Costs relating to Sailing (rig, sails and deck hardware) 0:45:17 – Total costs of Sailing 45:38 – Costs relating to Engines 0:50:42 – Costs relating to Steering 0:52:32 – Costs relating to Electrical System 1:00:50 – Total costs of Electrical System 1:01:07 – Costs relating to Achor (anchor, chain/rope, windlass, docking gear) 1:04:05 – Costs relating to Lights 1:07:17 – Costs relating to Galley 1:12:07 – Costs relating to Exterior 1:16:53 – Costs relating to Interior 1:17:45 – Costs relating to Heads 1:19:12 – Costs relating to Electronics 1:22:20 – TOTAL COST OF BUILD 1:26:40 – Closing by Jessica

Much love from England! Jessica, Matt & Georgie

9 Responses

Hey again M&J

Just watched you cost vid, pretty much covered it all. Awesome. I had another thought for you on the kit, ask Bob (Oram) or Jeff (Schionning) if shipping is mandatory with their kits. What I mean is, both use west system epoxy mostly although our kit also included atl kinetics resin for under waterline wetout, nevertheless you may be able to source that (and the various powder additives) locally rather than pay international shipping on it, same goes with double bias and uni glass, which leaves the composite panels. I have heard that designers may sell you the rights (single use) to the CNC files but it very much depends on if they know and trust the composite panel makers. If they do there may be a company similar to ATL in the US to make you the panels. Just a thought based solely on the absurdity of West being made in the US, shipped to Australia only to be shipped back.

Great to hear from you! *anyone reading this- Paul built a beautiful Schionning cat and did the best documentation I’ve seen of the process at Yikes.com.au

Funny, the first suggestion I received from Oram was to get my epoxy in the US. Not only is it cheaper, but apparently Epoxy is a hazardous material and just the mess of importing it is best to be avoided. But we’ll probably source the fiberglass straight from ATL.  In the US it’s more difficult than it should be to get the designer’s suggested cloth weave and weight. Our common weights are just different enough to cause some problems that I don’t want to have to reengineer for.

I did a cursory budget for building the panels myself, but unless my supplier’s bulk pricing was way too high, the ATL price vs infusing my own panels were surprisingly close – and it was even closer getting them from Schionning’s South African manufacturer. Buying 200 sheets of Divinycell still didn’t get me into the price point to make it worthwhile 🙂 But adding the savings along with not needing shipping and import does get to the point that we’d essentially be paying ourselves a fair wage to infuse them, but I keep thinking that all it takes is one bad hull length infusion and we’d be at a large loss. It would give us continuous panels without need joints, but the South African panels are 40′ long and only need one seam now… so hardly a big benefit there either. That debate still rages on 🙂

Get out there and use that awesome boat! I can’t believe it’s been sitting on the mooring for so long without you guys at least using it as a power boat.

Hey Matt, As I suspected there’s not much you don’t already know or scoped out. I hear you regarding infusion. I did a bit of research into the kss Kelsall process but in the end decided I perhaps don’t have quite enough skill or attention to detail to be confident in my ability to infuse a 40ft panel, the last thing you want is delamination. But the “out of a mold” with paint already on sure is attractive, if I was ever to build again, anything that reduces fairing is worth it’s weight in beer in my opinion. And yes, all going well we intend using Yikes later this year, if only around our home port but I have to get the ammenities and comfort up to spec to get Jo on board. Loved the Thai charter adventure vids. Cheers Paul

Great video. Thanks for compiling all this together. It’s compelling enough that I’m seriously considering actually going for it.

Couple of questions: 1. I’m trying to scout the building locations. I live in an apt so no access to a big backyard. I know you mentioned leasing a parking lot potentially .. do you have any pointers. Logistically that seems like a huge problem that I’m struggling to overcome given that leasing an industrial warehouse (if I can find one with the doors large enough) would be at least 20K per yer for the ~2000 sq feet I’d need. 2. Have you considered Spirited Designs (as in Sail Surf Roam). What is it that ultimately made you go the Oram route? Designs seem very similar between Schionning and Oram and even the layout seems similar. 3. Oram build hours estimate and the overall cost seems much lower than Schionning. Did you figure out why that is or am I misreading something.

Thanks in advance! Good luck with your new adventure!

Build location is something we’re still struggling with too. I’ve been limited to online searches and emailing agents (Craigslist is a good source) since we are still in the UK and unable to travel back to the US to personally scout out locations. But since we can build anywhere we want, we can pick the best climate for our build (epoxies have some environmental requirements) Where are you located?

It’s almost impossible to find a warehouse with large enough doors to get a cat out in one piece unless it’s an airplane hanger. The typical way most ‘home” builders do it is to remove the wall of the warehouse to pull the boat out… it’s not that hard or expensive to do on a steel building. You just have to find a landlord that is okay with you pulling off the siding/wall and taking a frame or two down for a few days.

The Spirited Designs is a great boat, but for us, it has a few minor traits that we are looking to avoid. Plus, the 38′ is smaller and the 48’ is bigger than we want… no happy medium is offered.

The ‘Cost’ video was just our breakdown for the Oram 45R… like the build video showed the Schionning. We haven’t decided on a design yet- the Oram, Schionning and Grainger are all still 100% in the running.

The Oram is a simpler boat to build. It has a single seam at the sheerline- Schionning is multiple panels that need to be taped and faired- and it doesn’t have the extra seam on deck (another set of panels less on the Oram), and even the cabin top has one less seam (and another panel set less). For better or worse, the stock interior plan is more basic on the Oram too. One simple thing that save a lot of time is the lack of secondary floor (sole) in the hulls. Down below you stand on the hull itself without an additional raised floor like on the other boats.

I haven’t seen Oram list a lower amount of time for the build than Schionning (Grainger does show higher hours). Bob’s site say 5500-7500 hours for the 45R, while Schionning’s site says 5,000 for the Arrow 1360 (design comparison PDF). Schionning shows cost as $260,000 AUD for the 1360 and Bob say’s from $205,500 AUD to $265,500+

And a final FYI- Grainger is doing some redesigns of the Raku- along with new pricing- and will have that information out in the next few days. From talking to Tony, it sounds like they are making a big push this year. Shoot him an email (graingerdesigns.net) and he’ll keep you in the loop with the new detail.

Matt Johnson MJSailing.com

Thanks for that response. I’m down in Miami. I like the year-round warmth for epoxy curing but not sure about the rain/humidity/hurricanes. I’m debating whether I should entrust someone like Ojigawan to build it in VA and just make the trips there as often as possible but that takes the fun/experience of building out of the equation, limits the learning, and last/not least raises the cost 🙂

I did get a quote for the Schionning Arrow 1360 out of Pantawee in Thailand — PM me if you’d like to know what that looks like. In my calculation it comes down to the hourly rate of about $29 which seems very high given that the generous wages in Thailand are about $5 per day.

Good to know about Grainger — will keep my eye out for those new designs.

Did you ask Julian at Current Marine in South Africa for a quote on the Schionning? They maybe a bit more competitive than the Thailand builder since they have so much experience with Schionning (they build the foam kits that Ojigawan uses). I think they also offer pretty good pricing on mast, hardware and all the other needed supplies in SA. Take a look at Current Marine’s CM45 too- it’s an awesome Schionning design.

Good tip. Will reach out to Julian.

By the way — made some progress with locations with some help from my realtor friend. You can find ~ 3k foot parking lots in the Miami area for about 1-1.5k per month. Not cheap but certainly an option. Typically they’re in the industrial areas which have some local laborers that can help with fairing, etc.

Another interesting data point is that some of the builders are estimating about 6500-7000 hours for the arrow 1360 build and trust that 5k hours gets you a very basic/rough boat.

BTW — did you see those new Graingers? pretty sweet! Apparently they have a promotion if you’re willing to purchase plans in the month of June — not sure the details.

The discount is 10% off for the month of June. If you talk to Grainger, tell him we sent you… we get a referral for each customer that acts as a discount for our kit 😉

We’ve found lots for around $500, but those are nowhere near populated areas like Miami. Besides the rain, humidity, heat and cold, one of my big fears with building in a lot is security. We can lock up to tools and supplies in the shipping container, but I’m really looking for a good fenced in area, but this has been a bit harder to find in our price range.

I think 7000 hours is a pretty accurate timeline for a novice builder. I’ve spoken to a guy that built a beautiful Arrow 1280s in 4,000 hours, but that seems to be exceptional and not at all average.

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• FUSION THE SMART CHOICE
• BUILDING YOUR DREAM
• FUSION THE BOAT
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Construction Flexibilty:

By producing this modern catamaran in modules, which in turn fit in containers, it has meant delivery is simple and it has opened the doors to worldwide marketing of the Fusion 40. The cost savings on overseas shipping as deck cargo, is in excess of $40,000.00. Private contractors are available to assist with assemblies to any stage if you desire.

For more information on this fabulous product, or even where the closest one to you is, please click here to contact us .

• BUILDING RAKU FROM A KIT
• Duflex Kit Construction in 9 Steps

BUILD YOUR RAKU CAT WITH A DuFLEX KIT BY FOLLOWING THESE NINE BASIC STEPS

Step 1. Kit Design

Work with us to finalise the details of the design you have chosen including any design options or additional modules to be included in the kit.

We will determine the laminates, the number of panels required for each laminate, create the cutting files and prepare a quote for the kit if it is not already priced.

Once the design details and pricing are confirmed you are ready to place your order.

Step 2. Unpacking

2. The kit arrives at your workshop door, usually by container, as a stack of 1.2m x 2.4m routed composite panels ready to be joined. The shipment will normally include additional reinforcements, resins, and ancilary products as specified.

Unpack the shipment and stack the panels out of the way of the space where the panels will be joined.

If you have purchased a joined kit many of the panels will already be joined up to the length that can be shipped in a container (12m).

Step 3 Joining the Panels

Set up the work space where the panels are to be joined.

The panels have a scarf join called a Z join that facilitate the join without needing tapes.

The joining can be done with a heated Z press that cures the epoxy join quickly. Alternatively they can be joined with clamping pressure.

If the panel are are being joined with the Z press you will need an elevated work bench the full length of the longest panels you are using. (image below).

If you are joining them with a clamping technique the space can be on the factory floor.

A nesting booklet is provided with the kit to show how the panels are joined (right)

Joining the panels with  clamping pressure

Panels are being joined into a single long panel by painting the surfaces of the scarf join with epoxy screwing through plywood battens that have a release film applied to one side.

Joining the panels with the Z Press

Step 4 Stacking Joined Panels

Once the joins are cured the panels are stacked to one side until they are needed for the job. The inividual parts should not be cut free of the panels until they are required.

Bulkhead and floor panels will be needed before the hull sides and cabin top so they should be left to the front of the stack wherever possible.

Step 5. Separating the Parts

When assembly is ready to begin the individual parts are separated from the panels by cutting the joining tabs. It is likely you will be building onto moulded hull bottoms that have been built from strip planking or another method of building moulded components. The process for building moulded components is described in another article.

Step 6. ASSEMBLY

As the joined panels are assembled onto the job you will need to apply glass tapes to the joins as specified in your plans.

Panels can be surfaced and coated inside and out with high build while they are on the workshop floor to minimise fairing time once they are assembled to the boat. The paint on the panels shown here has been kept back from the edges to provide a good bond for the tapes.

Smaller items such as steps, seats and dagger cases are nested into the kit and for the more complex parts diagrams are provided to assist with the assembly process.

Step 7. Interior

Interior kits can be ordered with the primary kit, or they can be ordered later when final decisions have been made about the interior arrangement.

A compromise solution is to order the interior as a set of plain planels that can be cut to shape on site after finalising the layout.

Step 8 Fairing, Painting, Hardware Installation

8. The DuFLEX construction process goes a long way to minising the amount of fairing that has to be done, but inevitably any boat that has not come out of a female mould will require some level of fairing and surface preparation prior to painting. 

The fillers and resin systems required for the fairing work are normally supplied as part of the kit.

Hardware installation is the same as for any other form of construction using high density core inserts or consolidated laminate in way of fittings.

Step 9. Sailing

Go Sailing. This Barefoot 40 Catamaran was built entirely with a Duflex kit in Foam/Glass and Epoxy resin systems from ATL Composites

DuFLEX Kits are manufactured and supplied world wide by ATL Composites

atlcomposites.com.au

And in Europe by VDL Composites

www.vonderlinden.de/her/28/vdL-Composites-GmbH

For more information on DuFLEX and associated Products 

atlcomposites.com.au/category/27/DuFLEX

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CSC 30 Catamaran- the coastal passage

Discussion in ' Multihulls ' started by peterchech , Nov 29, 2011 .

Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

Hi Silvah, thanks for your informative response to my previous post ​  

silvah said: ↑ . . . . . Lots of good stuff here though. The construction method is intriguing, essentially a twist on stitch and glue. Click to expand...

UpOnStands Senior Member

amazing hull on the left is a full compound surface job, one on the right is flat panel fold up. The savings seem to be great. Of course the compound surface has more volume in the bow areas.  

Attached Files:

Screen shot 2017-02-06 at 6.19.34 pm.jpg.

- I'm still reading this thread, and I'm up to the mast section now, and remembered a wing mast article with also info about plywood and strip plank . . Eric Sponberg ---> Website ---> Articles ---> Wing Masts, by Ted Hugger - PDF - Professional Boatbuilder, Dec/Jan 1992, Issue No. 14 (Note: not Eric's article, but featuring his design work) ​  

Bahamaboy New Member

Hi, i am from The Bahamas and i have been reading on Leon's CSC 30 for weeks now. This forum has given me a lot of info and i have started to build a model to see if this has the capacity that i would need to cruise the islands  

1499015847673-701451889.jpg

brian eiland Senior Member

limecc said: ↑ I read this entire thread very carefully and must congratulate and thank all the contributors. What a wealth of experience and information! I am planning a retirement project to build a custom CSC 30 and have a little over ten years to work out the finer details. I would describe myself as a complete sailing novice but have comprehensive engineering and woodworking skills, it would be a breeze to do. Actually sailing doesn't float my boat, I'd want a pair of 30hp outboards on the back. With the above in mind I guess the hulls would need extra length and buoyancy at the transom, and to carry extra weight of a better bridgedeck they probably need to be wider than 1.2m, would joining two sheets of ply be a weak point on the main bulkheads? Would it be able to reach planing speed and what would that be? I like the look of a Waller Coral Cove 31 and am considering that but as-is the design would need tweaking to accept the outboards. If I go for the CSC I would join the bridgedeck along the length of the hull. I thought I had most things worked out and now realise I haven't even scratched the surface! Thanks to this thread I definitely ruled out Polyester because of the smell and balsa. It's also galvanized my determination to realise the Cat dream and see the project through. Congrats to Gus and everyone else with the courage and conviction to build Leon's design. Click to expand...

limecc New Member

Hi Brian I just checked back and saw your links thank you for your consideration. Actually the past few weeks I've been weighing between foam and ply construction or a mix of the two and then a few days ago on YouTube I found how cheap 105MC's are going for nowadays which is really making me question whether to go the easy route. It has to be low cost I'm not committed to selling up what I've got on land.  

silvah Junior Member

limecc said: ↑ Hi Brian I just checked back and saw your links thank you for your consideration. Actually the past few weeks I've been weighing between foam and ply construction or a mix of the two and then a few days ago on YouTube I found how cheap 105MC's are going for nowadays which is really making me question whether to go the easy route. It has to be low cost I'm not committed to selling up what I've got on land. Click to expand...

redreuben redreuben

Limecc; Check out Richard Woods power cats. Sailing Catamarans - First Choose a Design http://sailingcatamarans.com/index.php/designs-2/6-powercats  

sailhand Senior Member

Hi just spotted this thread and thought I should contribute some thoughts and experiences. I live on a home built cat and have done for 14 years. I have been involved in many builds over the years and just a few weeks ago cut the last 2.5 metres off a schionning prowler to lengthen it by 1.4 metres as the bows were pointing towards the sky even with the house batteries mounted in the bow and i mean in the bows not in a forward locker we are talking less than a foot from the pointy end, and two big fuel tanks up there too in the same locker with electricity, just ridiculous. I think this had more to do with the build than the designer, the boats were copied in thailand. I have been on two of leons cats and have seen the problems with both the build and design. I have also seen the rot and the waste of money poured into what are essentially almost worthless boats. I know the owner of one of them well and he prompted me to write this. I live only minutes away from leon and his latest creation that he has moored in big tuan creek. The best investment you can make is in a decent set of plans from an established designer, you will save many more times the cost of the plans in the build process and end up with a valuable asset that costs less to build and in less time. The engineering in these boats, well I wouldn't go to sea in one. I really hate to step on people's dreams here and no doubt will receive a lot of flak, and probably insults from the small minded minority, however these boats should be avoided at all cost. I spend a bit of time next to the place where bob norson, the owner/editor of the coastal passage built his bob oram design. <removed> He spent some time telling me that placing carbon uni on top of and sideways across the middle of a panel increased the stiffness of the panel, in fact it had about the same effect as gluing a can of beer in the middle of the same panel, zero. I had to contact a friend of mine to tell bob norsons that gluing a rudder stock into foam with no other support was not going to work. He then printed a modification to his original rudder build on the coastal passage website, where he did the half assed fix that i suggested would be the absolute minimum fix instead of doing it properly. A designer will save you money not cost you. Whether you sell the boat or not someone else will have to eventually, will that be your kids or your wife that has to deal with this problem later. There are some fundamental problems with the whole design and I would not follow any of the ideas in those plans. <removed> Again sorry to step on people's dreams but if you had seen as many home built and designed projects end up in disastrous quantities of tears and expense as i have you would feel obliged to speak up as i am now. I am a friend of bob Oram's and my boat is a 44 ft oram catamaran, just disclosing that in case anyone thinks I have some ulterior motive for this post. Insult me now but if you don't build a leon design you will thank me later. Personally I don't really care either way but I would hate to see innocent family or friends die on one of these things. By the way it won't be my family or friends it'll be yours!!!! I don't sell any big designs I spent 9 years developing a dinghy for a tender and had so many people ask me about it I decided to sell them. I won't sell the plans to anyone in australia due to the litigious nature of our country, i can't afford professional indemnity insurance for the rest of my life and at a hundred dollars a plan there would need to be fleets of my dinghys launched every week just to cover the cost of that insurance. I spent 9 years using hydrodynamic software packages and designed the boat in Autocad and rhino. I even learnt how to use fea programs and studied engineering through University of Southern Queensland. I built 8 prototypes in total and tested them to the limit. I built molds and learnt how to resin infuse hulls. I did all this out of my own interest and curiosity I never intended to be a designer or sell designs. All this taught me two things, number one I never want to design another boat in my lifetime, number two a designer knows more than most people ever will about boats, and you get all that knowledge and support for a pittance and you save twice as much as you pay for the plans minimum by the time you finish the boat. Pay someone who knows what they are talking about and save yourself more grief than you could imagine, and have an asset that's worth something, or don't, at least you cant say you haven't been warned. I wish you all the best no matter what you do and I hope if you build one of these things it doesn’t fall apart or hurt anyone. Goodluck! !  

Hi Sailhand, It is good to finally have someone who has some seen this design, built, used, etc. So what are the design issues you are seeing with the CSC-30 that are so drastic you feel strongly that building and using this design could result in death? I am curious about specific issues with the design? I see you mention rot, but in my experience there are many woods boats out there that end up with this issue and it is more an issue of build quality, maintenance, and material choices. I don't think there are many here that would argue that a proven design has its benefits. There is clearly quite a bit to these "plans", if you want to call them that, that leaves a lot to the imagination, and to figure out on your own that would be clearly outlines in a professional plan. I think the reason folks are drawn to the CSC-30 is the idea that something could be done at 21K AUD (or 17K USD) versus the 100 or 150K or more the professional designs always seem to come out to in cost. If there are specific issues you are seeing, it would be great to get those issues identified to see if there are ways to mitigate those issues in future builds. Mike  

Mike, compare apples with apples please. Do you think 21k gets mast sails motor and rigging ? It gets cheap ply, handyman glue, poly resin, car bog and house paint. One thing in life I know, you gets what you pays for.  

I suppose given my earlier post it seems a little contradictory but i wouldn't like to comment any further on leons design. I have decided I will get some pics of leons latest creation to post on here, and as they say a picture says a thousand words, enough said. Now as I said earlier I really hate to step on people's dreams and there is such a good vibe on this thread with everyone keen to build a boat, one of the best things you will ever do by the way, that I would like to suggest you take a leaf out of groper's book and use this forum to create an open source plan of your own that will have input from a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site. Same size boat and same low budget approach. One more comment on the build a boat for 20k this is a complete myth, it's a lie, I will simply tell you to go out and price rigging deck gear sails etc for a cat of this size, include an engine of some sort, electrical system, plumbing, safety equipment, electronics etc etc etc. Sure you could buy second hand thirty year old junk and put it all together but what do you end up with. I am currently replacing rigging and sails on a friend's 39 footer and just the sails and new wire is around the 20k mark. There is a reason a boat costs 100k plus minimum and its not because there is an island paradise somewhere full of billionaire boat builders, on the contrary most of them go bankrupt. By the way there isn't a similar island full of billionaire designers either, think about it, this is a simple excercise that dispels the myth completely just a few hours on the phone and the lie will be exposed. I could sell you a ten dollar car that never breaks down and doesn't use any fuel in a heartbeat, but it doesn't exist. An open source plan put together on this site with input from the knowledgeable people on here may get you close to the mark but it will be more realistic and achievable than the csc 30 and probably a lot better.  

redreuben said: ↑ Mike, compare apples with apples please. Do you think 21k gets mast sails motor and rigging ? It gets cheap ply, handyman glue, poly resin, car bog and house paint. One thing in life I know, you gets what you pays for. Click to expand...

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Hi redreuben, I really have no wish to insult leon any more. He is a nice enough guy who had a go, leave it alone. Enough people have said don't do it let's leave it at that. <removed> Maybe if you get blocked arteries in your heart you could pop over and I'll have a Crack at fixing you up, I'll do it cheap for you, I've got a sharp knife I've seen a heart in real life it can't be that hard can it. If you come and knock on my door for a heart operation then you shouldn't build anything especially not a csc30. But as Forrest says stupid is as stupid does, you have been warned. JUST DON'T DO IT. I've had my final say on this subject, if people are flat out stupid and can't take a hint then there is nothing else anybody can do to stop them it's a free world knock yourself out and try and improve the gene pool. One final point, let's say that there might be three ton compression load on the mast beam, and I pulled that figure out of a hat by the way, if I found two 6 story buildings the same distance apart as the csc hulls and put a 6 x 2 between them would you go out and stand in the middle whilst I hung three ton off the middle of that plank. If your answer is yes stay home lock the door and don't go outside unless you have supervision, and once again for clarification I will not perform open heart surgery on you or any body else. Finito  

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