challenger 38 sailboat

CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) Detailed Review

If you are a boat enthusiast looking to get more information on specs, built, make, etc. of different boats, then here is a complete review of CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN). Built by LeComte Yachts and designed by John G. Alden, the boat was first built in 1960. It has a hull type of Keel/Cbrd. and LOA is 11.73. Its sail area/displacement ratio 15.81. Its auxiliary power tank, manufactured by Greymarine, runs on Gas.

CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) has retained its value as a result of superior building, a solid reputation, and a devoted owner base. Read on to find out more about CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) and decide if it is a fit for your boating needs.

Boat Information

Boat specifications, sail boat calculation, rig and sail specs, auxillary power tank, contributions, who designed the challenger 38 (alden).

CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) was designed by John G. Alden.

Who builds CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN)?

CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) is built by LeComte Yachts.

When was CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) first built?

CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) was first built in 1960.

How long is CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN)?

CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) is 8.31 m in length.

What is mast height on CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN)?

CHALLENGER 38 (ALDEN) has a mast height of 11.13 m.

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The centreboard is raised and lowered with a handle inserted into the socket next to the two instrument displays on the cockpit bulkhead. This operates a S/S wire which is led along the saloon deckhead, and down a S/S pillar through the saloon table. The centreboard case itself is entirely within the keel, and does not intrude into the cabin.

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• Sailboat Guide

Challenger 38 Ketch

Challenger 38 Ketch is a 39 ′ 11 ″ / 12.2 m monohull sailboat designed by Howard Stern and built by Challenger Yachts Corp. (USA) starting in 1972.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

Dimensions for ketch rig. See CHALLENGER 38 for more details.

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Bluewater Sailboat – Alden 38

The Challenger 38 Alden is a blue water yacht that stands at 38.5 feet long, with a masthead yawl design, crafted by the renowned John G. Alden and manufactured by LeComte Yachts using fiberglass materials. This model was available for purchase between the years 1960 to 1965 and a total of 50 of these bluewater sailboats were produced during this time period.

One of the standout features of the Challenger 38 Alden is its heavy construction. Although this does contribute to some slight under-powering, it also makes the sailboat incredibly resilient and capable of handling heavy seas. Additionally, the boat has an excellent righting capability, meaning it can quickly recover in the event of capsizing.

This boat is a great choice for those interested in bluewater cruising. While it might not be the fastest or most maneuverable ocean cruiser, its rugged construction and steady handling make it well-suited for long journeys on open water. Based on its top quarter ranking, the Challenger 38 Alden is a solid and reliable choice for sailors seeking a well-built and resilient cruising bluewater yacht.

• Length  38.50 ft (80%)    approximately 37.75 ft  
• Beam    11 ft (51%)          approximately 10.50 ft  
• Draft      4 ft                        
• Country                The Nederlands (Europe)                            
• Sail area / displ. 15.81 (99%)         approximately 15.83      
• Ballast / displ.    0 %                        
• Displ. / length    353                        
• Comfort ratio     33.12 (75%)         approximately 33.97
• Capsize 1.75                       
• Hull type              Monohull keel with centerboard                             
• Construction      Fiberglass                           
• Waterline length              27.25 ft (90%)    approximately 27.50 ft  
• Maximum draft 8 ft                        
• Displacement    16000 lbs                             
• Ballast   0 lbs                      
• Hull speed           7 knots

The Challenger 38 yawl was one of the final designs by the late John Alden, well-known for his close relationship with designer Olin Stephens. Prior to WWII, Alden and Stephens had a fierce competition with each other, but their collaboration during the war brought their designs closer together.

During the war, the American Navy recruited both Alden and Stephens to conduct research into hull design using the latest tank testing techniques, resulting in both designers gaining a wealth of knowledge in the field of hydrodynamics that they applied to their post-war yacht designs.

Halmatic, a boat builder based in Portsmouth, saw the business potential in the Challenger design and began producing the hulls using fiberglass, which was the newest and most advanced construction material of the day. At the time, the layering of the fiberglass was extremely thick due to lack of experience with the material. Several boats were built to this design using conventional timber construction techniques. But, the appeal of the modern GRP material drew the interest of Halmatic and the boats were sold in a large number in the US. The Yachting World remarked in 1960, the obvious benefits for the owner in having a GRP hull, and that it would not be long before the UK catches up with the US. Within a decade, it was rare to find a commercial yard building wooden bluewater yachts.

This particular yacht, built in 1960, underwent a major refit in 2002, by the previous owner, where the hull was stripped below the waterline, dried using the Hotvac system and was reinforced with 5 layers of glass cloth, which was then finished with an epoxy coating.

The hull of the yacht is constructed using a heavy layup of fiberglass reinforced plastic (GRP) with frames and stringers made of the same material. The areas of high stress around the main mast feature steel frames for added stiffness. Additionally, the frames in the saloon and forepeak were reinforced in 2002. The underwater surface was filled and coated with epoxy and treated with 2 coats of Coppercoat, which has effectively prevented fouling.

In 2002, the topsides of the yacht were sanded and repainted with a Hempels 2-pack paint system.

This bluewater yacht features a lead keel, which is bolted to the hull using bronze bolts. A 350lb bronze centerplate, which drops through the lead ballast keel, can be operated by a simple screw mechanism attached to a stainless steel braided wire. The centerplate was removed and the pivot pin, as well as the wire, were replaced in 2002. The mechanism can be easily operated by a handle located on the forward bulkhead of the cockpit.

The decks are made of a single layer of GRP, instead of a sandwich construction that can be prone to water ingress and saturation. The decks are also finished with a 2 pack deck paint.

The yacht’s coachroof coamings are made of solid teak and are mounted onto the GRP deck carlings. The windows are made of toughened glass and have stainless steel bezels along the coamings. The coachroof deck was replaced in 2011 with marine plywood that was sheathed in epoxy cloth for added strength.

The cockpit is constructed of solid teak and offers ample space for the crew. The thwarts and cockpit sole are finished with straight-laid teak planking and there are thwarts all around and a bridge deck to the companionway. The port and starboard thwarts lift up to provide access to deep cockpit lockers.

Steering is handled by a new stainless steel pedestal with a repeater screen for the Raymarine plotter mounted in front of the wheel. The cables connect to the steering quadrant and teak rudder, which was rebuilt in 2013 with new bronze internal bolts. Unlike some boats, there is plenty of space to move fore and aft around the wheel without disturbing the helm.

A watertight hatch in the sole gives access to the stern gland. The generous beam, a feature of American yacht design at the time, allows for wide side decks for easy movement around the boat. The large foredeck has a center-mounted Lofrans electric windlass.

The twin-roller stainless steel stem head fitting incorporates fairleads and attachment for the forestay. A stainless pulpit with port and starboard navigation lights, a forehatch at the forward end of the coachroof with varnished teak handrails either side, and a hatch just aft of the mast over the main saloon are among the many other features of the boat. Additionally, there is a deep hardwood toe rail all around with stainless steel stanchions mounted slightly inboard to avoid dirt building up between the stanchion base and toe rail. The aft deck has a self-draining gas locker recessed in, large mooring cleats, bronze fairleads, and a bronze dorade vent to allow ventilation into the lazarette.

The yacht features a Bermudan yawl rig with white painted alloy masts from 1987. The main mast is keel-stepped and reinforced with a steel shoe to distribute the load. The main boom is made of varnished spruce with a stainless steel roller reefing system on the gooseneck. The deck-stepped alloy mizzen mast has a varnished wooden boom and stainless steel gooseneck. The halyard winches on both masts are Lewmar captive wire type.

All of the standing and running rigging on the yacht was replaced in 2003, and it is attached to internal stainless steel chainplates. The mainmast has a jumper strut, single lowers, an intermediate stay, a single cap shroud, and a swept-back cap shroud running just aft of the spreaders. The mizzen has similar features, with single lowers and a single cap shroud. A ProFurl furling system was installed in 2007 for the roller furling headsail.

This bluewater  yacht also has a pair of large Lewmar 2-speed primary sheet winches that are mounted on stainless steel brackets on the side deck and fastened through the cockpit coamings. A pair of top-action spinnaker winches are located at the aft end of the cockpit and two Lewmar single speed winches are located on the mainmast.

This boat’s interior layout is practical and functional, harkening back to a time when cruising yachts were designed with pilot berths. These spacious sleeping areas are perfect for both kids and storing sea bags during the day. The simplicity of the layout is refreshing and allows the boat to remain practical and usable. Unlike modern yachts, there are no unnecessary design elements, such as drawers for doilies or louvered lockers for wine glasses. The overall design is simple and practical, with no unnecessary or extraneous features.

The yacht boasts a spacious layout, with accommodations for up to 6 people. Upon entering the cockpit, one will find a companionway that is offset to starboard, leading into the main saloon. This design feature allows for a large galley area on the port side while also providing a useful chart area on the opposite side. The L-shaped galley includes a 2-burner gas stove with grill and oven, ample storage space, and a deep top-access chest fridge. The galley does not encroach into the saloon and this is another advantage of the offset companionway.

The chart desk is located to starboard with standing room to work at the desk, and electronics are housed under the deckhead with lockers behind. The saloon is full standing headroom and features a drop-leaf table in the center, with inlaid varnished sole boards. The port and starboard settee berths have full-length, wide pilot berths, providing plenty of stowage space underneath. A solid fuel stove is also located at the forward end of the saloon for added warmth.

The head compartment is located at the forward end of the saloon on the port side, and features a Jabsco sea toilet and hand basin. The forepeak includes twin V-berths under the forehatch, with storage space underneath. An anchor locker is also located forward, providing additional storage space for fenders and warps. The interior joinery was refurbished in 2002, with most brightwork being sanded and revarnished and new upholstery and curtains were added.

It’s worth to mention that American designers had begun to realize the hydrodynamic benefits of increased beam, and this bluewater yacht is a fine example of this design trend. This not only improved performance but also added significant interior volume, making this yacht a spacious option for its period.

Performance

The yacht boasts an updated design compared to its parent model, with a focus on performance. This is evident in its fin keel and skeg-hung rudder, which provide for a moderate draft of 5 feet and 9 inches. The design’s displacement-to-length ratio is 273, and the keel is positioned toward the aft of the canoe-shaped hull. The connection between the keel and skeg is protected by a deadwood area, ensuring the propeller shaft is well protected.

The yacht is equipped with a Yanmar 40hp 3 cylinder marine diesel engine that was installed brand new in 2002. The engine is paired with a Yanmar gearbox and a stainless steel shaft that connects to a 3-blade Featherstream propeller which was fitted in 2007. The engine beds were cut out and rebuilt to accommodate the new engine, ensuring that it was properly supported. Additionally, the propeller, shaft, and stern gear were all replaced in 2002. The yacht also features a stainless steel fuel tank with a capacity of 40 gallons, located under the settee berth. Additionally, there is a secondary stainless steel tank below the cabin sole in the bilge with a total capacity of 70 gallons that is currently not in use, but it could be utilized for fuel on longer voyages. To power the engine, the yacht has a dedicated 105ah engine start battery and 2 x 180ah domestic batteries that are charged from the engine alternator with an Adverc battery management system to optimize charging time.

Quick notes

She is a well-designed yacht with a fin keel and skeg-hung rudder, providing good performance on the water.  The keel is well-positioned on the canoe body and connected to the skeg for added protection for the prop shaft.

The yacht has been well-maintained and refurbished in 2002 with most brightwork being sanded and revarnished with new upholstery and curtains.

It has a Yanmar 40hp 3 cyl marine diesel engine installed new in 2002, with a Yanmar gearbox, a stainless steel shaft and 3 blade Featherstream propeller fitted in 2007.  It has a good electrical system with a dedicated 105ah engine start battery and 2 x 180ah domestic batteries charged from the engine alternator with an Adverc battery management system to optimize charging time.

The yacht comes with a lot of features such as watertight hatch in the sole, stainless pulpit with port and starboard navigation lights, forehatch at the forward end of the coachroof, etc.

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Challenger 40..... A good foundation?

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Hi All, I've been shopping boats for a little over six months and I've recently been turned on to the Challenger 40 for the following main reason: 1) Good headroom (I'm 6'4"). 2) Appears to be a well built thick hand laid 1970's era fiberglass boat. 3) Significant bang for the buck. I've looked at more modern boats in the 34-36 foot category that have all the bells and whistles. My thought is that If I do my homework and buy an older solid boat, i can ad bells and whistles (electronics to my liking, cushion covers, dodger, etc) as I go. On the other hand, buy the 34-36 foot boat, love it for 5 years or so, and end up wanting a bigger boat with more off shore capability, higher tankage capacity, heavier displacement etc. Going to view a cahllenger 40 this weekend (Sloop) and likely flying somewhere in the next few weeks to view another one (ketch). My intent is to use the boat for PNW cruising over the next few years as the boat and my schedule are upgraded to accomodate extended cruising. I currently own a 1989 Macregor 26D and a Nacra 5.2 Cat.... I sail both frequently. Have had experience sailing a 40' plus boat with similar dispacement to challenger 40 in the San Juans / Sound area. I have turned over practically every stone I can on the web trying to find info not only on Challenger Yachts, but specifically the 40. Anyone have any knowledge to bestow on me? Any suggestions for other boats that I may want to throw in the mix? (budget not to exceed 45k....30k would be nice). How about someone to talk me out of all this craziness? What say you??  

I absolutely love my Challenger 40', Elizabeth, which I've had for almost a year. They are really well built boats and I'm extremely happy with how she sails (I've had her moving over 10 knots flying the #3, Main, and Mizzen). Mine is a ketch rig, which I really like, although I'd be interested to check out the sloop. I had little experience with ketch rigs before I started looking at her and read a lot about ketches and yawls in the run up to buying her. I learned that there is a lot of hatred for the rig out there, I'm glad I didn't listen to the haters; I like it for the following reasons: It's easy to reduce sail - over 30 knots of breeze I can fly my mizzen and headsail only and still move along just fine - and I'd argue with more control than a reefed main. Splitting the sail plan makes the boat more trimmable for women or those small of stature. Three sails looks cooler than two. Mizzen tricks - you can use the mizzen for a lot of fun tricks your sloop friends don't know about. That's my ketches are great bit, as to the Challenger, I think she has a lot to offer. A few things to watch out for - The original mainmast step on some of these boats was a welded bridge that spans the bottom of the hull where the mast passes through the cabin sole. I saw photos of someones Challenger down in Central America that had badly corroded - this is in the foreward head so figure it might have had to do with use of the shower. Mine is stepped into a large (approx 12"x12") block that is glassed in to the hull - prefferential I think, don't know of it is original, I suspect it was done when the boat's standing rigging was redone. That would be something to look at if it is accessible. A few other beefs I have - The wiring harness on mine left some things to be desired - it would have been nice if they'd followed colour-coding convention when they ran wires - also they were quite a few splices below the cabin sole - less than desirable. The keel is really deep, under the engine, and is almost impossible to clear of standing water - let alone clean. I think they made Challengers in a full keel model as well that might be better for this (mine is a fin keel and has a six and a half foot draft). Mine had some issues with secondary bonding - some tabbing had from the hull at the connections to the bulkheads. Not sure why - I fixed all that with epoxy after I bought the boat. Something to look at. And the good: Roomy, as you noted, nice headroom, solid layup (I think the hull is an inch think!), mine has a Perkins 4-107, which is a great little engine, generally well thought out systems, nice interior woodwork, etc. I did what you're doing when I bought mine and got some nice testimonials from folks on here - one bloke said he'd take his anywhere - now that I've had mine for a year I'd agree with that too. Cheers, hugh  

sfchallenger said: I absolutely love my Challenger 40', Elizabeth, which I've had for almost a year. They are really well built boats and I'm extremely happy with how she sails (I've had her moving over 10 knots flying the #3, Main, and Mizzen). Mine is a ketch rig, which I really like, although I'd be interested to check out the sloop. I had little experience with ketch rigs before I started looking at her and read a lot about ketches and yawls in the run up to buying her. I learned that there is a lot of hatred for the rig out there, I'm glad I didn't listen to the haters; I like it for the following reasons: It's easy to reduce sail - over 30 knots of breeze I can fly my mizzen and headsail only and still move along just fine - and I'd argue with more control than a reefed main. Splitting the sail plan makes the boat more trimmable for women or those small of stature. Three sails looks cooler than two. Mizzen tricks - you can use the mizzen for a lot of fun tricks your sloop friends don't know about. That's my ketches are great bit, as to the Challenger, I think she has a lot to offer. A few things to watch out for - The original mainmast step on some of these boats was a welded bridge that spans the bottom of the hull where the mast passes through the cabin sole. I saw photos of someones Challenger down in Central America that had badly corroded - this is in the foreward head so figure it might have had to do with use of the shower. Mine is stepped into a large (approx 12"x12") block that is glassed in to the hull - prefferential I think, don't know of it is original, I suspect it was done when the boat's standing rigging was redone. That would be something to look at if it is accessible. A few other beefs I have - The wiring harness on mine left some things to be desired - it would have been nice if they'd followed colour-coding convention when they ran wires - also they were quite a few splices below the cabin sole - less than desirable. The keel is really deep, under the engine, and is almost impossible to clear of standing water - let alone clean. I think they made Challengers in a full keel model as well that might be better for this (mine is a fin keel and has a six and a half foot draft). Mine had some issues with secondary bonding - some tabbing had from the hull at the connections to the bulkheads. Not sure why - I fixed all that with epoxy after I bought the boat. Something to look at. And the good: Roomy, as you noted, nice headroom, solid layup (I think the hull is an inch think!), mine has a Perkins 4-107, which is a great little engine, generally well thought out systems, nice interior woodwork, etc. I did what you're doing when I bought mine and got some nice testimonials from folks on here - one bloke said he'd take his anywhere - now that I've had mine for a year I'd agree with that too. Cheers, hugh Click to expand...

Hey Hugh! Thanks for the info! I actually have read your posts about your challenger and had composed a PM to you prior to starting this thread but wasn't allowed to send due to my low post count!!! I appreciate the feedback (especially the issues to watch for). Both boats I'm looking into are full keel. As for the sloop vs. ketch conversation, I think I'd be okay with either one and will choose the boat that is in the best overall condition. I am tempted to get into the sloop vs. ketch game, but at the end of the day, I think it would be alot of stress over nothing and there are more important items to evaluate. I look forward to comparing notes with you in the futrure.....especially if I end up as an owner. -Tyler  

Hi Tyler, You can reach me at [email protected] if you have any specific questions, I'm happy to help out a fellow potential Challenger owner. Best of luck in your search, hope you find the right boat for you! Cheers, h  

Sweet! Just sent you an e-mail.  

Swift, SFChallenger has given you lots of specifics, but just to chime in-- we sold our Challenger 40 ketch a year ago. She was a solidly built boat with lots of light in the interior, and a TON of storage space. She sailed very well. An excellent boat with a little-known name.  

Thanks Suzy! I just walked away from a full keeled ketch in Californina last week..... had too many things going on. I was sold on that set up and am now only able to locate a sloop rigged fin keel challenger 40. Was your ketch full or fin keeled?  

She is full keeled.  

hi there, just to echo some things already said; she's a great sailing boat with a nice gentle motion, the head room is a huge plus (i'm just over 6ft), the engine access is great, the interior build quality is very well thought out, and the galley is highly livable. i have some original documentation including the owners' manual if you'd like to to see it. we've owned ours (family of 4) for about a year and love her more every time we take her out. she handles the sf bay like a pro and can keep up with much younger boats with no problem. she's a sloop rigged fin keeled craft that is capable of 35deg off weather when properly trimmed and can make 7-9 kts comfortably. i wouldn't hesitate to make a passage in her at all.  

Hey Captaindad, I'd be interested in having a look at your documents, I have a Challenger 40' ketch rig. I'm in the sf bay too, so perhaps we could meet somewhere and I could photocopy if you don't have them in electronic format. Ping me here or e-mail me at hfield at matpelbuilders dot com if that could work. Cheers, h  

So, I am coming to the party late. But, I am the "new" owner of the Challenger 40 Ketch Susy sold in 2009. After more than 3 years of owning and living aboard her I would agree with the comments above. A very solid cruising boat that I would hesitate to take off shore. We have installed a number of upgrades so far and we have a few more to go before we leave but almost all of the work has been updating older systems and not fixing broken stuff. Have a great sail! Tim and Tina SV Alethiea  

Planeman1960 said: So, I am coming to the party late. But, I am the "new" owner of the Challenger 40 Ketch Susy sold in 2009. After more than 3 years of owning and living aboard her I would agree with the comments above. A very solid cruising boat that I would hesitate to take off shore. We have installed a number of upgrades so far and we have a few more to go before we leave but almost all of the work has been updating older systems and not fixing broken stuff. Have a great sail! Tim and Tina SV Alethiea Click to expand...

My Bad... and yes it was a type-O and we will be headed off shore full time in a couple years. Hoping for a couple years in the med, then the caribean sea then the pacific run. Thanks  

It's been over a year, any updates! Another Challenger has come to the market that has spiked my interest. Anybody still here?  

Totally late to this conversation but we have purchased a Challenger 40 a few months ago and have finally started working on her. She needed some help but she will be well worth it. We just purchased a Challenger 40 a couple months ago and have just started to fix her up. Wasn't used for over 6 years and had a few problems but nothing that cant be handled. Structurally she is sound and no blisters and engine in good shape and what not. But I would love to have any documentation you all have as ours is a Sloop as well. Its a 1972, and I am gutting all the wood out of vberth and rebuilding it as it had termites in that area, have to change flooring too, about 45% of the floor I will be redoing. Have gone through the whole boat to check for any other wood damage and that seems to be the stent of those little bugs. Over all it is wood work and standing rig along with restepping the mast. I would love to see how your mast is stepped, this one is all corroded and I will be glassing it in once done. I am also redoing most if not all the electrical wires, and will be leaving some extras up in the mast when I do it as well for future upgrades. Thanks for any info you may have. Cheers...  

saltyzephyr said: Totally late to this conversation but we have purchased a Challenger 40 a few months ago and have finally started working on her. She needed some help but she will be well worth it. We just purchased a Challenger 40 a couple months ago and have just started to fix her up. Wasn't used for over 6 years and had a few problems but nothing that cant be handled. Structurally she is sound and no blisters and engine in good shape and what not. But I would love to have any documentation you all have as ours is a Sloop as well. Its a 1972, and I am gutting all the wood out of vberth and rebuilding it as it had termites in that area, have to change flooring too, about 45% of the floor I will be redoing. Have gone through the whole boat to check for any other wood damage and that seems to be the stent of those little bugs. Over all it is wood work and standing rig along with restepping the mast. I would love to see how your mast is stepped, this one is all corroded and I will be glassing it in once done. I am also redoing most if not all the electrical wires, and will be leaving some extras up in the mast when I do it as well for future upgrades. Thanks for any info you may have. Cheers... Click to expand...

No, regular termites is all. Just in the plywood.  

Hello! Anyone still there? My husband and I bought a 1972 Challenger 38 about two and a half years ago now. I'm glad to have found this forum and hope there are still some folks out there still taking these old boats on adventures. My husband and I are first-time boat owners...actually neither of us had ever been on a boat in our lives. We bought this one because cosmetically she's beautiful inside, had the head room for my 6+ ft. husband, and is known for its solid core. While under sail about 13 miles off the southern CA coast, the mast step sheared on us, dropping the mast to the keel. Thankfully no damage to the deck, mast, or hull. I highly encourage anyone who hasn't gotten eyes on their mast step to do so before your next sail. As someone mentioned above, we are also in the process of completely re-wiring everything. We have lots of rotten wood (v berth) and under all the port lights that we will be attempting to tackle this summer. S Mostly she needs some upgrades, like new LED mast fixtures, a (mostly) cosmetic shower overhaul (the head platform is rotting), constant varnishing (I'll pay that price for our gorgeous boat!), and a saloon upholstery overhaul. Our main concern right now are squishy decks. Were they made with plywood cores? We have a Perkins 4-108 and in the past year, we rebuilt the transmission and the engine back to the rear main seal. The rear main seal was leaking oil into our incredibly deep bilge, causing us to soooo many bilge pump woes. Seems like we have an undersized prop; at 2000 RPM's we can't get over 4.3 knots. I'd love to hear about everyone's Challengers, successes, woes, specs, etc. to help us with our projects and to know what's normal! I heard there's a manual floating around and I'd love to it. The only thing I can find online is the sketch from sailboat data. Please reach out at ekhenderson14 at Gmail dot com. For those who posted their contact info, I'll be reaching out to you to see if you can share any materials. Take care!  

Also very late to the forum. I bought a Challenger 38 Sloop version this past June. Like all here, Even though there is a ton of work to do to her, I was hooked as soon as I walked down into the salon. Just lovely boats. I have yet to sail her but I love the damn thing. Like many, I am in desperate need of documentation. Also I need pictures of the head as mine was altered in a very poor manner and I'd like to restore it properly. I am also based in Northern California, east of San Fran, but my boat is currently down south until this coming spring. I look forward to talking with many here.  

Hi, Old thread yes, hope some of you are still alive.. I am looking at a ketch rigged "Challenger 40" need some clarification.. when looking up on sailboatdata.com the only models are either the 38 (39.9LOA) and the 41 (41LOA). which of these is considered the 40 ? ive been assuming the 38 but would like to confirm. Also, Wondering what would be a good offer price. So I was wondering what you paid for yours, and the general condition it was in. Thanks  

FrenchPython said: Hi, Old thread yes, hope some of you are still alive.. I am looking at a ketch rigged "Challenger 40" need some clarification.. when looking up on sailboatdata.com the only models are either the 38 (39.9LOA) and the 41 (41LOA). which of these is considered the 40 ? ive been assuming the 38 but would like to confirm. Also, Wondering what would be a good offer price. So I was wondering what you paid for yours, and the general condition it was in. Thanks Click to expand...

Its not that going from a 100% jib to a 150% genoa won't help a little. It will, but not much. The reason this is so is because the driving forces on a sail come from the leading edge of the sail (until the boat's course is very deep reaching, and even then the majority of drive still comes from the forward portion of the sail.) That is the reason that SA/D calculations only uses the 100% foretriangle rather than the size of the biggest genoa. While the leading edge of the sail adds drive, the leech of the sail mainly adds drag. As a sail becomes a larger percentage genoa, there are minimal gains in drive, and whatever those minimal gains occur are in part diminished by this added drag. That is the reason that if you look at modern cruising rigs, they rarely use more than a 110-115% genoa. On the other hand adding luff length to the mainsail and jib help performance enormously on a per square foot of sail area in contrast to making a large percentage genoa, which does relatively little. And then there is the problems related to constructing large proportion genoas. In order to assume a proper flying shape in lighter winds (under 10 knots) the fabric of the sail needs to be light enough to lift the weight of all of that excess fabric. But unless the sail cloth is a very high tech- low stretch material, as the wind picks up that light weight material will stretch, and become more powerful, just when you want to depower (flatten) the sail to reduce weather helm and heeling. Once that happens, you will prematurely need furl 10-15% of the sail area not because of its sail area, but because of its fullness. 10-15% is about as far as you can roll a sail and still maintain a proper sail shape. Beyond that the sail becomes fuller defeating much of the gains from furling the sail. But since this is a light weight sail cloth for the low wind range, the sail will continue to stretch and power up. At some point, you would then need to do a sail change or sail heeled over excessively and going slow. Jeff  

Jeff_H said: Its not that going from a 100% jib to a 150% genoa won't help a little. It will, but not much. The reason this is so is because the driving forces on a sail come from the leading edge of the sail (until the boat's course is very deep reaching, and even then the majority of drive still comes from the forward portion of the sail.) That is the reason that SA/D calculations only uses the 100% foretriangle rather than the size of the biggest genoa. While the leading edge of the sail adds drive, the leech of the sail mainly adds drag. As a sail becomes a larger percentage genoa, there are minimal gains in drive, and whatever those minimal gains occur are in part diminished by this added drag. That is the reason that if you look at modern cruising rigs, they rarely use more than a 110-115% genoa. On the other hand adding luff length to the mainsail and jib help performance enormously on a per square foot of sail area in contrast to making a large percentage genoa, which does relatively little. And then there is the problems related to constructing large proportion genoas. In order to assume a proper flying shape in lighter winds (under 10 knots) the fabric of the sail needs to be light enough to lift the weight of all of that excess fabric. But unless the sail cloth is a very high tech- low stretch material, as the wind picks up that light weight material will stretch, and become more powerful, just when you want to depower (flatten) the sail to reduce weather helm and heeling. Once that happens, you will prematurely need furl 10-15% of the sail area not because of its sail area, but because of its fullness. 10-15% is about as far as you can roll a sail and still maintain a proper sail shape. Beyond that the sail becomes fuller defeating much of the gains from furling the sail. But since this is a light weight sail cloth for the low wind range, the sail will continue to stretch and power up. At some point, you would then need to do a sail change or sail heeled over excessively and going slow. Jeff Click to expand...

BITD many boat designs intended for offshore came with 2 rig designs - standard and a "snug rig" option for primarily blue water use. I never understood the logic of that - most offshore sailors will tell you that 95% or more of cruising is done in winds of 15 knots or less. Handling huge genoas is a continuous pain while a good reefing setup lets you shrink a rig in seconds. I owned an offshore specialized boat with an Sa/D under 16 and I would never have one that low again. And the boats under discussion have Sa/D's under 12. That is sail assisted MoBo territory - 9 is steadying sail territory.  

Reach out to me please I have a Coronado 45 would like you input [email protected] thanks  

The most cost effective way to improve the upwind sailing performance of this boat would be to get a different boat.  

It looks like you are trying to buy an anchor. That would suggest that you were successful in finding a suitable boat for your purposes. What did you end up buying? Jeff  

Jeff_H said: It looks like you are trying to buy an anchor. That would suggest that you were successful in finding a suitable boat for your purposes. What did you end up buying? Jeff Click to expand...

Ah, Sunset at No Name Cove. Brings back a lot of fond memories. Jeff  

PM me with any questions you have.  

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Challenger 38 ketch

The challenger 38 ketch is a 39.92ft masthead ketch designed by howard stern and built in fiberglass since 1972..

The Challenger 38 ketch is a moderate weight sailboat which is under powered. It is reasonably stable / stiff and has an excellent righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a bluewater cruising boat.

Challenger 38 ketch for sale elsewhere on the web:

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